B&S Micromaster 618- partial tear down with questions

[Janderso]

Hi,
I periodically check the lubrication system to make sure all is well.
In order to gain access to the upright ways and metering valves I need to remove the flood cooling panels, the table and the covers.
I should add, these covers are about .119” thick. Way overkill but really cool.
I would like to replace the gaskets between the covers and the castings. They material looks similar to what I would call butyl tape.
I worked in parts for years, the butyl tape I remember was used to seal and hold window glass into the C channels. You old timers will remember it. I’ll look for some online.
The main question I have is the very thin coating of oil I see on the V ways for the upright when slid front to back.
I have checked the flow of way oil. I am getting 6 pounds of pressure which is correct according to the manual. I can pump, flood the V ways and the flat way with an oil can, run the pump for half an hour and when I slide the upright over the ways there is a very thin coating of oil. It almost looks dry and I know it’s being oiled.
The pics show my concern areas.
Short of pulling the upright and reflaking the underside do you think this is adequate?
The table V ways still have flaking for oil retention. It’s getting thin but the machine still performs within specifications.

I’m hoping someone has experience with this machine and this issue. It’s like the mating surfaces are pushing the oil out.
The condition of the ways for the upright are good in my opinion. I can’t feel or see any galling.
The machine did sit in an unheated shop for a few years, you can see the staining but you can’t feel it. The surfaces are baby smooth.
I used precision ground stones on the ways after giving them a good cleaning with brake cleaner. I did not feel or see any obvious high spots which would be evident if there was galling.

I should add, the Bijur metering valves were replaced three years ago. I checked, watched the amount of oil coming out of each port to verify proper flow.
The machine was cleaned and the fluids and filters were also replaced. The pic of the metering valve just shows the style. I put them in the ultrasonic tank with super clean to make sure they were clean.

What are your thoughts?
Thanks, Jeff

 

[graham-xrf]

My first thought was "Yum - I would love one"
Next was "0.119" I recognize that! It's nearly 3mm (3.0226). I like that thickness also, except when I try to bend it!
When one sees ways with flaking marks still there, it's just lovely!

Let us come to the oil being displaced and pushed out. No actual scrape marks shown close in at the photo of the oil, though there does appear to be oil left as the table moves away to expose surface. I don't think you have a serious problem. Possibly, it's about the viscosity of the oil, and the type, (needs to be the sort with sticky additive, and non-detergent), but I am pretty sure you already know all that. A bit concerning is when you say "It looks almost dry". In passing, what brand and type do you favour?

I did pick up a tip when watching one of Stefan Gotteswinter's videos where he came to chamfering the edges of underneath parts of a compound slide (I think it was that), and he chose to file a small, low-angle, slope at the edge that would deliver oil. Sharp right angle edges do not as easily admit offered oil, but the slope lets the oil in and develop pressure between the surfaces to "ride up". I think this was about the edges of the oil channel grooves under the slides. Perhaps one should consider oil that already made it out onto the ways as "used", and possibly contaminated. I get it that what you want to see, is wet oiled ways left behind as they become exposed.

An engineer pal of mine told me that surfaces with permanent pumped oil supply fed between them just "never wear". This is probably not realistic for a shop machine with exposed ways. It's not at all like (say) engine bearing lubrication.

 

[Cadillac]

I have questioned the oil supply on my SG. Boyer Shultz With auto pump. What I did to check was dry the exposed ways both rails at both ends of travel. Then I ran the machine which is when the pump runs. Acouple times back and forth then I checked the ends. Granted oil wasn’t dripping off the ways but there was a THIN coat of oil on ways. Can tell when you wipe with your finger.

 

[Janderso]

My first thought was "Yum - I would love one"
Next was "0.119" I recognize that! It's nearly 3mm (3.0226). I like that thickness also, except when I try to bend it!
When one sees ways with flaking marks still there, it's just lovely!

Let us come to the oil being displaced and pushed out. No actual scrape marks shown close in at the photo of the oil, though there does appear to be oil left as the table moves away to expose surface. I don't think you have a serious problem. Possibly, it's about the viscosity of the oil, and the type, (needs to be the sort with sticky additive, and non-detergent), but I am pretty sure you already know all that. A bit concerning is when you say "It looks almost dry". In passing, what brand and type do you favour?

I did pick up a tip when watching one of Stefan Gotteswinter's videos where he came to chamfering the edges of underneath parts of a compound slide (I think it was that), and he chose to file a small, low-angle, slope at the edge that would deliver oil. Sharp right angle edges do not as easily admit offered oil, but the slope lets the oil in and develop pressure between the surfaces to "ride up". I think this was about the edges of the oil channel grooves under the slides. Perhaps one should consider oil that already made it out onto the ways as "used", and possibly contaminated. I get it that what you want to see, is wet oiled ways left behind as they become exposed.

An engineer pal of mine told me that surfaces with permanent pumped oil supply fed between them just "never wear". This is probably not realistic for a shop machine with exposed ways. It's not at all like (say) engine bearing lubrication.

I can appreciate the beveled ends but I don’t even want to think about what it would take to achieve the task
This upright must weigh hundreds of #.
I’m using Mobil Vactra #2 Way oil.

 

[Janderso]

I have questioned the oil supply on my SG. Boyer Shultz With auto pump. What I did to check was dry the exposed ways both rails at both ends of travel. Then I ran the machine which is when the pump runs. Acouple times back and forth then I checked the ends. Granted oil wasn’t dripping off the ways but there was a THIN coat of oil on ways. Can tell when you wipe with your finger.

Mobil Vactra#2 Way oil.
I can see oil on my finger after each pass but man, I would hope for more of it.
I’d be curious if the upright side had flaking for oil retention.
Richard King told us to flake the underside not the exposed side. I guess that’s to reduce the chance of grit being introduced via gravity?

 

[Janderso]

I have a neighbor who is a retired machinist from Lawrence Livermore lab.
I asked him to take a look.
He said not to worry about it. Hmmmmm.

If I’m not willing to take the thing apart to inspect, I guess I should move on and reassemble.

 

[C-Bag]

I have a neighbor who is a retired machinist from Lawrence Livermore lab.
I asked him to take a look.
He said not to worry about it. Hmmmmm.

If I’m not willing to take the thing apart to inspect, I guess I should move on and reassemble.

if it ain't broke.....so said the chicken

 

[MrWhoopee]

This being the vertical column, two things come to mind. First, the amount of motion is very limited compared to the table ways. Second, the amount of pressure on the ways is quite small because gravity pulls down. The only source of pressure is the overhanging grinding head.

In conclusion, you need to find something else to fix, this one's not broke. The one-shot lube system on my Kent mill could stand some attention.

edit: ask your neighbor if he knows Jim Spoonemore.

 

[benmychree]

I think that bevel business would invite grit to enter the way surfaces, and grinders generate lots of it, even with liberal coolant.

 

[graham-xrf]

I think that bevel business would invite grit to enter the way surfaces, and grinders generate lots of it, even with liberal coolant.

Indeed - and I agree if it were an edge that rolls along, exposing a way, but it was not.

It is important not to misunderstand exactly where such a feature is placed. Where it is, it never sees the outside, and only delivers oil onto the ways by the one-shot oiler. Stefan had cut symmetric diagonal oil grooves in a carefully designed scheme to ensure the entire width of the ways was treated to new oil. The migration of oil is always towards the outside, and the way scraper felts are supposed to keep the contaminants out.