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Bar whip in a lathe

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vtcnc

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westerner

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Thank you! Good example of how a simple job can get out of hand. Recognizing the potential for danger, and the appropriate measures to take before hand, is one of many things that separates the apprentice from the journeyman.
 

benmychree

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I had that happen once with a 3/4" copper bar, it didn't tear anyone's tool box or hurt anyone, but did a bit of damage to the lathe guards.
 

RJSakowski

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That lathe was dancing! That was wrong on so many levels. Fortunately, no one got hurt.
 

vtcnc

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My understanding after talking with people at OSHA is that this happens more often then people think. nobody was hurt, which means it likely wasn’t reported.

I have a couple of unsubstantiated opinions about what I see here...so, food for thought.

1) The only thing you can see wrong in this setup is a simple roller stand and absence of substantial sleeve or bushing support.

2) The shop is immaculate! Which tells me that management values appearance over function. The setup of a lathe where rotating stock is IN a pedestrian aisle is mind blowing from a management perspective. This reeks of management negligence.

I’ll bet that when the OSHA guys see this video, this shop gets a knock on their front door.


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jcp

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Indeed the outboard stand is there but is not supporting the shaft. I have used this same setup many times in my career but the stand was under the shaft adjusted slightly higher than the spindle center line......no problems.
 

higgite

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A classic illustration of the tail wagging the dog.

Looks to me like the operator forgot to put the support stand in place. It starts out standing beside the work piece, but not supporting it. Also wondering if he hit the emergency stop button or just the emergency slow down button.

Tom
 

vtcnc

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@higgite, if you watch closely the machine is walking away from him as he is trying to find the button.


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higgite

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@higgite, if you watch closely the machine is walking away from him as he is trying to find the button.


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vctnc, I saw that, but I’m afraid I don’t get your point. My comment about which button he hit in the heat of battle was referring to the machine continuing to slowly rotate after he had assumedly hit a stop button. A perhaps feeble attempt at humor on my part.

Tom
 

francist

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Yes, classic case of the tail wagging the dog. Good thing it didn't turn into a classic case of the operator's pony tail wagging the dog...

-frank
 

JimDawson

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@higgite, if you watch closely the machine is walking away from him as he is trying to find the button.


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Somebody needs to tell that guy ''It's the big RED one'' :grin: I'm surprised the spindle took that long to stop, if I hit the E stop with the spindle running on mine and it energizes the brake.

Something like this happened to my lathe at sometime in it's life. The fan housing and electrical box on the spindle drive motor was broken and the inside if the cabinet is beat up in a couple of places. We are really careful with unsupported stock, and have proper spindle liners for the sizes we run. Maximum length we run in this lathe is 48 inches which gives a maximum of about 8 inches of unsupported stock. Bottom line is be really careful with long stock in your lathe !

You can see the dent in the cabinet just to the right of the hydraulic hose on the spindle. No evidence of other damage, but if it had hit the hydraulic manifold it could have gotten really expensive. Looks like I need to clean the fan screen. :)
1548343342513.png
 

vtcnc

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vctnc, I saw that, but I’m afraid I don’t get your point. My comment about which button he hit in the heat of battle was referring to the machine continuing to slowly rotate after he had assumedly hit a stop button. A perhaps feeble attempt at humor on my part.

Tom
Sorry...LOL. What I should have said is that whether it was an E-stop or spindle speed dial, or something, that machine wasn't going to let him push it the first time! :)
 

whitmore

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...wondering if he hit the emergency stop button or just the emergency slow down button.
The easiest cutoff to reach on the old LeBlond lathe was, as I recall, the clutch. Maybe the spindle is just freewheeling while
the operator does his urgent breathing-control exercises.
 

mmcmdl

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Don'tcha hate when that happens ? :eek: Lathe not lagged down , not that it would've mattered .

Years back I worked in a closed door top secret lab doing weapons work for the gov . We ran 2 shifts , daylight and evening shift till 12.12 am . The HMFIC was an old German guy . Very nice BUT very strict and ran a tight ship . Anyways I moved over to the evening shift and we used to run G jobs after hours , making potato cannons , flare guns , whatever . So one day we get a surprise meeting with JB the boss , saying he doesn't mind us doing that after hours as long as caution was taken , safety first , and security had to be notified as to we were in the lab at night .

That same night , my buddy wrapped a bar in the back of a Harding HLV-H lathe at 3000 rpm . :grin: Not funny then , but a memory never forgotten , and can be laughed at today . I thought a helicopter was taking off in the shop ! Broke all the guards off the machine , totally destroyed a Kennedy top , middle and roll-around , threw stuff around the shop like no tomorrow , and walked that HLV-H across the floor like nothing ! o_O

Ah ......................the G jobs ended the next day . :(
 

682bear

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Been there... done that... 20-something years ago, I chucked a 1/2 inch copper rod up, hanging out the back of the lathe about 3 feet... I was just going to turn it on at 50 rpm or so and part off some blanks to turn into sinker EDM electrodes.

It was after I engaged the spindle that I realized I had left the lathe in high gear instead of shifting it into low... it spun up to 500 rpms, and the rod beat holes in the steel tooling cabinet beside the lathe...

It is amazing how long it takes to find the 'off' button when something like this happens...

-Bear
 

682bear

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Also, while we are discussing emergency stop buttons...

I run a large CNC vertical turret lathe at work... it has a large red E-Stop button and a small black 'reset' button... on that particular machine, if something happens, it is best to hit the reset button instead of the E-Stop... the E-Stop cuts power to everything, but the machine continues to 'coast' to a stop... but the reset button stops everything immediately...

Definately a poor design, IMO...

-Bear
 

plunger

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I wouldnt be suprized if the spindle is not cracked on that lathe
 

Dabbler

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A few months ago I was doing some research on stands for workholding and came across a fatality that was caused by a 3/4" steel extending out from the headstock - with a stand under it. The stand looked like it just fell over and the bar was invisible. the operator didn't even see it coming.

It turns out that the recommendation is that the stand not only enclose the barstock, but that the stand be weighted very heavily with a wide base. Mine weighs over 60 lbs, but I have to make a way to increase its footprint to be safe (mine is a 14" per side triangle - the recommendation is 30")
 

Holescreek

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I've seen the aftermath of bar whip many years ago with an Okuma lathe and 1" bar stock. I cut off the bent piece of bar stock and kept it in my office for a long time. It's a direct result of management wanting to run the lathe like it has a bar feeder without actually spending the money to buy one. The feeder housing IS the containment required to run safely.
 
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