Brake rotors and State Inspection

[verbotenwhisky]

I'm of a mind that (in general) a safety inspection is a good thing. The specifics, well that's where it can be murky. Brakes - yeah, they need to work. Guess I was flabbergasted about the stupid wiper, that was over the top, in my opinion. I'll check the brakes when I pull the wheels. If they are bad, I will replace them.

But maybe my gripe is with the quality of the report - it was low on details that I could use and learn from. It seems they want to keep us all in the dark, with no numbers. I need the numbers, so I can measure and confirm them, and so I know what to look for in the future.

At least in my state, there's no separation between the inspection and a dealership/mechanics. So there's actually a financial incentive to fail more vehicles, because they make money doing the repairs. The state sort of wins, because the bias is towards fewer safety issues. But the consumer tends to lose, due to an increase in unnecessary repairs. Some states have independent inspection stations, not in NH. So, I'm not taking at face value what the dealer says. These guys used to be pretty good - they never did me wrong. But the new ownership, umm, it seems they are more prone to saying stuff is wrong, when it isn't. Like when they said I needed new wheel bearings. I challenged them on that. I said, what specifically is wrong, why doesn't the vehicle behave with classic wheel bearing issues. They said their young mechanic heard something, implying I didn't or couldn't hear. I said what did you measure or hear and when did it occur. They backed down, as they were BS'ing me. 9 months later, there's still no evidence of wheel bearing issues. They simply saw grey hair and thought they could fool me. Now if they had said I needed tires because of tire wear noise, that I would have believed. (Because it is true in this case. The tires are making noise, and it is dependent on the local pavement.) This dealership tried to do something similar to my wife too. My wife knows to call me about this kind of thing. So do my kids, and my son in law. If it sounds real expensive and out of the blue, it's worth a call for a second opinion. I've saved them quite a bit of money from unnecessary repairs. But it's not just my dealership, it's in many places and in many states.

My daughter called me about some service that her dealer said was required. It was well over $1500. Out of all of that, only $20 was necessary. They saw a young woman, figured she knew nothing and they could financially gain from her by claiming unnecessary services were needed. They were wrong. They only got $20 for the part and my daughter replaced the part herself. My daughter learned a couple of things that day.

In TX they pull out and take a drive if everything is functioning, including the E-Brake, that is as far as they go. Many years ago you could bet they would charge you for adjusting your headlights but I haven't seen one of those machines in a long time.

 

[MikeInOr]

Another year, another failed NH motor vehicle inspection. This time is was for one wiper blade that had a 5mm, I kid you not, tear in the rubber at the end of the blade. It was raining on the way to the inspection, the darned wipers were working fine. Strike one. Kind of felt that was a low blow, but not a difficult fix. The second strike was for my front brakes. Now that is a safety issue, if true.

Can't tell exactly what the fail is for though. They provided a classic craigslist photo, you know some sort of blurry thing that somehow means something to the photographer and no one else. I think the fail is for an "elevated ridge" at the very outer edge of the rotor. At least on the outside edges, the ridge is minimal, like 1mm wide and not very high, which is (in my opinion) not a big deal. I'll pull the wheels tomorrow and take a look. Maybe the insides of the rotors aren't good.

What I can't find is an actual rule on the state DMV site that gives a standard for this. All that I could find was https://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rules/state_agencies/saf-c3200.html There's no mention of ridges, nor minimum acceptable swept area. They do refer to the manufacturers specifications. In the service manual for my car, in the brake inspection section, they only call out run out and rotor thickness. Neither were called out for failure. And the rotor thickness is measured 10mm away from the edge, which to me seems to allow for a ridge. Assuming the micrometer has a 6mm contact diameter, then that would allow for up to a 7mm ridge. That's larger than I'd like, but the service manual is silent on the matter. Don't see any other specifications to measure.

Yeah I'm venting. Tomorrow I will have pictures and measurements. Maybe I'll find something that I need to repair, but inspection from the exterior, nothing looks wrong. (Actually they looked really good, which is why I was so surprised.) Yeah, they wanted about $700 for the front brake job. Declined their kind offer. I will do it for less. Supposedly I get a free inspection, if done within 30 days. If the weather holds out, and I am lucky it might be done tomorrow.

Last year they got me for cloudy headlights. (To me that is a manufacturing defect.) I fixed that "safety issue" in two minutes with some plastic polish. At least this year, I remembered to re-polish them. If I could find some decent, affordable UV protectant, I'd coat them. Otherwise I'll just polish them every six months. Way cheaper than spending > $800 for plastic headlights that will fade again, or some ridiculous rejuvenation service for over $300.

Getting tired of maintaining this nine year old car. We've fallen out of love. Too boring, not fun, poor mileage in the city, too many stupid issues. Want to stop putting money into it. It's my only vehicle, so I have to keep it running or get something else. In the meantime, I need to fix it and pass inspection.

The county I live in doesn't have safety inspections or DEQ.

So the business that does the inspection can also offer the service to fix what they find is wrong? That sounds like legalized organized crime to me!

 

[WobblyHand]

The county I live in doesn't have safety inspections or DEQ.

So the business that does the inspection can also offer the service to fix what they find is wrong? That sounds like legalized organized crime to me!

Yes it can. I agree with you.

 

[WobblyHand]

Well, I did the brakes. 5.5 hours on the driver's side front and just 2.5 hours on the passenger front. The easy part was getting the rotors off. Forget pounding, it's a waste of time. I squirt in a little oil in the screw holes and crank on a decent SHCS in M8. I find the oil lubes the threads, which are typically rusty and may provide some additional hydraulic push. They come right off.

The harder part was managing the pads and infernal clips. It was like the carnival game, pounding the monkey heads. When one was pounded down another would pop up. The pads didn't want to stay in place. Once I got one in and started on the other the original one would jump out. It seemed there were 8 degrees of freedom and I only could apply 3 of them. Eventually it dawned on me that most of the problem was actually fit. The backing plates were about 0.5mm too long. For a while I was using small vise grips to keep the pads from jumping out. Finally got the first caliper loaded and naturally had to spread the pads, so they would fit. Tried a bunch of ideas which failed and finally I remembered that I have two steel wedges for splitting. Found them, which was a feat in itself, and drove them from each end of the caliper. Then measured when it was wide enough. Finally was able to slide the caliper and pads on the rotor.

The second one was way easier. Even so, it gave me a solid fight.

As for the rotors, I think they could have gone a whole lot longer. They weren't that bad, in my opinion, I would've run them. I can say I won't go back there. A lot of places might have passed them. The pads were rather nice. The front of the rotor was pretty good. The other rotor was similar. I still have the old rotors and pads, so I can take better pictures tomorrow.

Kind of physically sore right now, doing this stuff at ground level is tough on me.

 

[pontiac428]

Brakes can be a fight sometimes. Each model car has its own pains in the caliper... In all fairness, it does appear you are beyond .020 per side on that rotor.

 

[WobblyHand]

Brakes can be a fight sometimes. Each model car has its own pains in the caliper... In all fairness, it does appear you are beyond .020 per side on that rotor.

What is this 0.020 per side that you are referring to?

The service manual does not call out any ridges, for inspection. Only a thickness measurement 10mm from the edge, and run out. The state inspection regs do say "follow the manufacturer's specification".

 

[RJSakowski]

We don't have a statewide inspection in Wisconsin. I believe that there is a mandatory inspection on the east side of the state for emissions. Were there such a mandated inspection, I would state up front that any required repairs would be done by a mechanic other than the inspection station. Too many stories about upcharging in the auto repair industry.

When I got my tires, I requested and paid for a brake inspection. I specifically told them that I did not want any additional work to be done on the vehicle. My rotors both were still .075" over minimum thickness but they would have needed resurfacing as there was corrosion on the inside diameter of the rotor surface. I originally thought it was due to an improper assembly but it now appears more likely that it was due to a bad design of the caliper which provides uneven force to the surface of the brake pad as both rotors exhibited the symptom.

 

[pontiac428]

What is this 0.020 per side that you are referring to?

The service manual does not call out any ridges, for inspection. Only a thickness measurement 10mm from the edge, and run out. The state inspection regs do say "follow the manufacturer's specification".

Brake rotor wear limit is 1mm, which is .020 per side. Some manufacturers (OEMs) allow 2mm, so it does depend on your car.

 

[WobblyHand]

Brake rotor wear limit is 1mm, which is .020 per side.

Ah, ok. The rotors are definitely thicker than the limits, I measured them with a micrometer. They look worse than they measure.

 

[pontiac428]

Ah, ok. The rotors are definitely thicker than the limits, I measured them with a micrometer. They look worse than they measure.

If it's above the limits, then you win. Just judging from the photo, I can see why they called them out. They spotted the pronounced ridge. The rust kind of makes things look worse than they are, too.