Building a Shaper experiences-

[craniac]

We may be heading for an open source shaper design!

Now you've got my attention!

Tim

 

[Lo-Fi]

Funny I too was also thinking about using linear rails for a shaper too. Brings me to a question, " If today a machine designer today was designing a metal shaper what would he do?" That's why I have been studying the "Cincinnati all metal shaper" patents, which was at it time probably the most advanced design of a metal shaper. I really like the screw ram, seems better than the crank/gear/linkage, maybe simpler with todays motion control systems.

I'll have to look those up! Screw ram sounds rather interesting, for sure. I'm intrigued! The genius feature of how the crank arm is arranged gives the double speed return stroke and max force going forward. I love that kind of elegant simplicity in a design.

Only reservation I have about linear rails would be robustness. Cast iron ways have such an enormous bearing surface compared to any ball bearing based rail system. Only one way to find out for sure if they're up to it, though

Now you've got my attention!

Tim

If I were to sell plans, how many would I sell? A dozen over as many years? Pfff. I'd rather have the fun of collaborating with you guys and end up with a better design because of it. Hopefully we'll all be able to enjoy seeing a few others have a go at making one too, probably moving the design forward in the process. It's far more satisfying than the potential financial reward IMHO.

As I said further back in the thread, I've been down this road before with the KSP game expansion (wheel, caterpillar tracks, anti grav silliness) I wrote, and got the fun of seeing tens of thousands of people download and enjoy my work. Some joined in and helped me too - about a dozen people around the world. Something I'm still really proud of.

 

[frugalguido]

Here are some images of the ram and screw drive from the "all metal shaper"

Front picture of the ram, made with Cor-ten steel, triangular in shape. It is interesting that they used Formica type material for the ways, just more food for thought.

 

[Lo-Fi]

Now that's what I'm talking about! Thanks, the triangular ram gives real food for thought. Formica is an interesting choice indeed, though I've seen some kind of plastic used on mill ways during rebuilds lately. I guess it was the weapon of choice at the time.

Open to any input on this - the more the better. I'll look up that Cinci design, see if I can get a little more detail.

 

[frugalguido]

The whole patent is downloadable on line. It is very interesting on how they designed it, I just think that using modern electrical motion controls to replace the hydraulics /gearing would be simpler today. It truly was made to be high speed, (screw driven ram and light weight construction of the ram, thus being capable of using carbide tooling. Also to note the feeds for the table, both vertical and horizontal at the same time for preselectable angle feeds( think of doing dovetails, no topside adjustments). Since it is all made from steel, no castings, I think that it might able to be made in the homeshop.

 

[Lo-Fi]

Sounds like a fantastic source of inspiration, I'll go take a look. Triangular ram has really got me thinking.... The joy of cad is that I can get a good grip on how the mechanics work with whatever I design. Always stuff that crops up when cutting metal, but gets 90% of it ironed out.

 

[matthewsx]

I'll have to look those up! Screw ram sounds rather interesting, for sure. I'm intrigued! The genius feature of how the crank arm is arranged gives the double speed return stroke and max force going forward. I love that kind of elegant simplicity in a design.

Only reservation I have about linear rails would be robustness. Cast iron ways have such an enormous bearing surface compared to any ball bearing based rail system. Only one way to find out for sure if they're up to it, though



If I were to sell plans, how many would I sell? A dozen over as many years? Pfff. I'd rather have the fun of collaborating with you guys and end up with a better design because of it. Hopefully we'll all be able to enjoy seeing a few others have a go at making one too, probably moving the design forward in the process. It's far more satisfying than the potential financial reward IMHO.

As I said further back in the thread, I've been down this road before with the KSP game expansion (wheel, caterpillar tracks, anti grav silliness) I wrote, and got the fun of seeing tens of thousands of people download and enjoy my work. Some joined in and helped me too - about a dozen people around the world. Something I'm still really proud of.

I tried to learn KSP a while back but could only succeed in crashing

But, and opensource/copyleft design for a shaper or any other machine tools is something that interests my very much. I watched with interest the open source multi-machine project

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But sadly it's designer is unable to continue and so is Yahoo Groups....

I'm guessing you're using FreeCAD for drawing and if not, why not? I'm pretty committed to opensource as a much better process for design than proprietary models and would definitely be interested in participating. My CAD skills are almost non-existent but I'm reading the book and learning since I need it for using the CNC mill I built.

Maybe a video call for those interested would be a good idea, or just start a new thread on here.

John

 

[Aaron_W]

A shaper vise and tool holders would attract the most attention as they are often missing on used shapers, as well as being needed for a complete DIY shaper build.

 

[frugalguido]

Sounds like a fantastic source of inspiration, I'll go take a look. Triangular ram has really got me thinking.... The joy of cad is that I can get a good grip on how the mechanics work with whatever I design. Always stuff that crops up when cutting metal, but gets 90% of it ironed out.

Here is a picture looking from the front of the ram. Notice that the triangular ram is supported on all three sides in the corners. I would imagine that it makes it very stiff and allows the ram to be made of thin material, thus lighter weight. Also the ram slides are the entire length of the ram, so fully supported. Maybe linear rails could be used instead, although the original idea is simple.

 

[Lo-Fi]

I've been wading through the patent deciphering it. Quite fascinating - a great find. High speed did seem their goal and there are some interesting features, such as a spring that gets compressed on the backward stroke. That's a great idea that I'll be using if possible. For a small shaper - we're looking at about 8.5" stroke - it seems entirely reasonable to go for high speed capability and open up options for carbide.
Still mulling over the triangular ram and use of something other than cast iron for ways. Linear bearing rails just don't "feel" right, if you know what I mean? A triangular ram, on the other hand, makes complete sense. It's really just a case of figuring out the best material and design for the ways. I'll keep thinking on it!