Cast steel anvil?

trying to straighten a deck screw on it left screw shaped divots in the face
The blue ones at HF are cast iron, which is good for vibration damping, but universally despised as a striking surface I believe. One good thing about a cast iron anvil is that you can milll the face flat easy. I’ve done it.

But another thing people often forget, is that the anvil was intended for working hot metal Striking cold metal on most any anvil will result in some marking. Then again, it doesn’t really matter if the face of an anvil is perfect. You only need a smooth spot the size of your hammer face. First step of dressing the anvil is easing all sharp edges, by as much as 3/8 radius. Sharp corners on an anvil are not your friend
I find John Switzer, of Black Bear Forge on YouTube to be a very good resource. He’s not an anvil worshipper. It’s just a tool to him. Just be aware that it won’t be long before you’re cruising Craigslist for power hammers, and all the wonderful machines/tools of the smithing craft. Lol
 
There is a saying among blacksmiths that working cold iron on your anvil will make you wet your bed. However, I work cold iron on mine frequently and have not seen any damage. (as stated in a recent post on another thread, I forge welded a new spring steel face on my 19th century anvil though. Cast iron anvils can chip and shatter; its their nature. A cast steel anvil will be more resilient. From the advertising, it appears the the cast steel anvils have been hardened which will help to prevent denting from cold iron or hammer blows. A better option is a forged steel anvil as it tends to align and refine the grain structure of the steel. It seems that some of the higher priced anvils specifically use 4140 steel, hardened to between 48 and 62 Rc. Vervor just states that they use premium steel.They do say it is heat treated which implies some carbon. One issue with softer anvils is they will dish out with repeated use. For the occasional user, this may not be an issue though. There are some schools that maintain the dishing is actually a good feature because, when flattening a piece of iron, even while hot, there is a small amount of spring back so working on a flat surface will result in a slightly domed work piece. Traditionally, the horn of the anvil was soft, which is why so many old anvils have mushroomed horns.

Other than the structure of the anvil, consideration to form should be given. The Vevor anvil has misplaced hardy and pritchel holes. The hardy hole is typically located out on the heel of the anvil. This allows striking a jammed hardy or other tool from below to knock it out. Blacksmth made tools for use in the hardy hole are typically forged using the hardy hole as a swage. This provides a tight fit so the tool doesn't wobble in us. These close fitting tools act much like the MT taper in the tailstock. If you can't push from behind, they can be a devil to get loose. The pritchel hole is typically located even further out on the heel. A major use for the pritchell hole was acting as a bolster when hot punching holes. Locating the pritchel hole next to the step as Vevor does makes it fairly well useless. Finally, the overall shape of the anvil and particularly the horn and heel contribute to it usefulness. Personally, I prefer a fairly slender horn and a heel thatis more drawn out and relatively thin at the end. Turning a uniform curve is more difficult on a short, fat horn. The horn on my anvil is needle sharp as well. A thinner heel allows you to work parts that turn back on themselves as they will fit under the bottom of the heel.My anvil is patterned after the Aramtige Mouse hole anvils of the 18th century and it more squat than I would prefer. A Hay Budden or Peter Wright pattern is more to my liking. Aesthetically, I think they are more pleasing as well.
 
About a hundred years ago, when I was 14 my sister wanted a horse. A horse needs shoes. A very old man was hired. He came in a 1938± car pulling a 2 wheel trailer. His forge was a cast iron bathroom sink. Air was from a 6 volt heater fan, powered by the car. There were a couple of bags of coal, a tub of water, a collection of tongs, hardies, hammers and the like that looked home made to a kid used to manufactured items. A big beat-up anvil was mounted on a piece of tree on the trailer. There were long bars of steel that he made into shoes to fit the particular hoof he was working on. There is quite a lot of detail that goes into a shoe. I was totally fascinated! Too bad it wasn't filmed.
 
From the advertising, it appears the the cast steel anvils have been hardened which will help to prevent denting from cold iron or hammer blows. A better option is a forged steel anvil as it tends to align and refine the grain structure of the steel. It seems that some of the higher priced anvils specifically use 4140 steel, hardened to between 48 and 62 Rc. Vervor just states that they use premium steel.They do say it is heat treated which implies some carbon.
I'll admit up front that I'm an anvil nerd...I've owned over 100 of them from almost every major vintage brand as well as a handful of modern production anvils.

As with anything there really isn't a blanket statement that covers this topic accurately. The very best anvils made today are made by Refflinghaus in Germany. I have two of them...330lbs and 325lbs and both are just a few years old. They are cast steel and hardened to a degree and depth most people wouldn't believe. Refflinghaus originally made forged steel anvils, but switched to cast steel with a forged welded top in 1958 and then all cast steel in 1975 and the quality is as good, or better than ever. They claim the current design is the best ever. They carbon soak them in a forge for an extended period before quenching and they claim that the surface hardness is a full 1" deep and minimum Rockwell 59, so quite hard. There is a wait list to get them and the prices are intimidating....the two I have are over $4K each now. I have used forged steel anvils made in German and France that were fantastic, but no better than the Refflinghaus.

Similarly, most Swedish anvils like Soderfors and Kohlswa are cast steel and as good as any forged steel anvil. In fact, Soderfors (still have two of those) are known to be on the edge of being too hard. There were also a number of American cast steel anvils that were extremely high quality and I'd put them as right there with the best forged steel anvils...Columbian, West, and Vanadium Steel brands were all fantastic.

Most modern cast steel anvils aren't made to quite that standard because the steel required is fairly specialized and too expensive to source in the volume needed for anvil production now (very limited). The Holland brand anvil made in Michigan uses H13 and the family making them appears to be tagging anvil production on to the end of production for something related to the car industry and that allows them to use a specialized steel that would otherwise be cost-prohibitive (see $4K anvils above).

I guess that's a long way of saying that with the right materials and knowledge, it's possible to make a cast steel anvil that is as good as any other method, and possibly better. Obviously that doesn't cover HF or Vevor, but I don't think that's a surprise to anybody.

Traditionally, the horn of the anvil was soft, which is why so many old anvils have mushroomed horns.
I think it depends on how far back you look. Quite a few anvil brands used tool/alloy steel horns that were hardened. The typical wrought iron body anvils like most English anvils and probably half of the American brands used a soft wrought iron horn, but quite a few used a steel horn that was hardened. Most of the time when you see the tip of the horn mushroomed it was done intentionally so they wouldn't poke themselves on it.
 
I'd like to have a smallish anvil. I've been looking for a decent used one for a long time. I've been using a piece of RR track, even considered modifying the RR tack. That doesn't look like a winner. Got better things to do at this age (nap?) I've seen this one, Vevor cast steel 88#s.
"Premium Material 88 lbs: This steel anvil is made of drop-forged, high-grade steel, which features high hardness, strength, and durability. Our steel anvil blacksmith has excellent grade material of 50 HRC. The solid base also keeps it sturdy." $167 delivered.

Any thoughts?
The pritchel hole is pretty much useless where it is on the Vevor anvil and it's on the soft side at only 50HRC, but not terrible. It's still pretty light for doing any serious forging, but would be okay for light work...same thing with the HF.

One thing to know is that if you work cold steel on any anvil you risk dents/dings. I've heard a lot of folks say they'd like to have an anvil and I ask what they're going to so with it. The answer is usually more just a surface for beating on stuff, straightening stuff, etc and they have no intentions of actually heating steel and then forging it. A true anvil is a poor choice for that, and RR track is actually better.

If you're going to truly forge stuff then I'd lean towards the HF as that at least has everything where it should be. It's more the weight of a light farrier's anvil so it would help if it was mounted to a sturdy stand and not just planted on a stump like so many are. I actually hate anvils on stumps...ugh. Other than being easier to move around I find them worse in every way than a sturdy stand and that's true no matter what size of anvil. My primary anvil is 330lbs mounted on a stand I fabricated that weighs close to 100lbs and it allows every bit of energy to be transferred to the work rather than causing the stand to wobble around.
 
One of the nicest anvils I ever had the pleasure of using was a big Hay Budden -- man was that ever sweet! The face was still in really nice shape and you knew as soon as you walked into the shop it was there, a presence to be reckoned with and respected. I have a smallish (1-1-0, I think) Peter Wright at home that was handed down from a dairy operation across the water in Langley. It's a bit chunkier than the usual Peter Wrights so I suspect it was maybe offered as a lower-cost farm anvil as opposed to a true shop anvil. Still nice to use though.

-frank
 
My ex was a farrier. I made exactly one horseshoe in my life just to be able to say to myself that I did it. Making shoes from bar stock is an art. Most shoeing nowadays is don3e with factory made shoes. Last year, I gave away over 1,000 lbs of horseshoes, mostly new, that had been left behind when my ex left.
 
I guess that's a long way of saying that with the right materials and knowledge, it's possible to make a cast steel anvil that is as good as any other method, and possibly better. Obviously that doesn't cover HF or Vevor, but I don't think that's a surprise to anybody.
You’re right on with that first sentence. I can’t imagine why Vevor or HF couldn’t also make an anvil as good as any other. You ought to buy one and give it a go.

This is not an AI bot trying to fool you. Obviously you enjoy anvils. What’s one more on the pile? Lol
 
You’re right on with that first sentence. I can’t imagine why Vevor or HF couldn’t also make an anvil as good as any other. You ought to buy one and give it a go.

This is not an AI bot trying to fool you. Obviously you enjoy anvils. What’s one more on the pile? Lol
They certainly could. The issue is the price point. "Name Brand" anvils are going for around $7/ lb.
ref, https://www.centaurforge.com/Anvils/departments/141/
 
You’re right on with that first sentence. I can’t imagine why Vevor or HF couldn’t also make an anvil as good as any other. You ought to buy one and give it a go.

This is not an AI bot trying to fool you. Obviously you enjoy anvils. What’s one more on the pile? Lol
I actually have been thinking about getting one of the HF anvils...honestly! There are a couple of things I do pretty regularly that could damage a good anvil so I will put something like a slab of mild steel on the anvil to protect it...it would be nice to have a "beater" anvil (pun intended) like the HF one and it would let me give it sort of a torture test.

I've sold off most of my anvils, but still have my absolute favorites left. One more wouldn't be a problem. Wait, I think I said that the first time I started buying every anvil I ran into :grin:

330lb Refflinghaus No 57 with the stand I fabricated for it...still had the factory red paint on the face! The upsetting block I use is the big chunk between the feet. This model is rarely available now, and the No 58 which is similar but has a side shelf isn't normally available in this size. Refflinghaus is a small family-owned business and they're making very few anvils these days, with fewer and fewer sizes and models available. Over $12/lb now :eek:

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