Considering A Career Move To Machinist Apprentice

[silverforgestudio]

OK folks- long time reader and lurker of threads.... poster to a few... I have enjoyed the fellowship and respect the guidance here. I am asking for input on a matter somewhat personal- but pertaining to machining... and that is- "Becoming a Machinist"

I am looking for input from anyone- not "just" professionals or "just" Hobbyists...

In the interest of time/space, sanity and bandwidth- I will boil the saga down to the "Cliff Note" version of why I am posting and what I am asking:

Chapter ONE: 12 years ago-
Here is the spec's: My "Metal fever" started about 12 years ago when I had a girlfriend who liked jewelry- and I couldn't afford it... so I took a class, learned to make some trinkets and poof- fell in love! (With metals)

Chapter 2: 10 till about 7 years ago-
Lost the girl- kept making jewelry- loved to see silver and pearls and little things and sell them too... but found the silver was not the expensive part- it was the tooling to work it... so I joined the local blacksmiths guild to learn how to hot-work steel and heat treat things. Loved it. Forging and grinding knives, kitchen tools and other tooling was simple, unadulterated pure fun... for a few years

Chapter three: Six or so years till last year...
Now it was a hobby- and the real world came closing in fast... new wife, soon a baby, and the dreaded "real-job" (which had NOTHING to do with metals) all ate away at my time (as did a part-time business built around other things)... I became a domesticated fellow- with a schedule and duties outside my hobbies- I had "outgrown" things. I missed it.

Chapter four: Last Year...
Wife gets out of college- gets a job- notices Im still sad- encourages me to find my happy... I go back to metals- reading, cleaning old tooling, buying an old Rockwell lathe and some other old iron... but don't know exactly HOW to use it... Looking for formal training- nothing in my area- mentors are hard to find as well, and there seems to be NO written curriculum or benchmarks available to train myself to... although I enjoy the Guy Lutard readers and have devoured 300 issues of practical machinist, Projects in Metal and other magazines I acquired from an estate sale of a retired machinist. (Wife curls up with Stephen King books- Im reading Rudy Kohupt...) I want more, I want practical application and skills.

Chapter five: 4 months ago-
So here we are... an old paramedic (22 years in the streets) wanting to make the hard left-turn into becoming a machinist- really intrigued by tool and die work and making tooling... I'm not UN-employable at my early 40's... so I am trying to get into the DOD/DON Shipyard Machinist Apprentice program close to me. (DOD= Dept of Defense whereas DON= Dept of Navy) Im hooked on Myfordboy, ABOM79, Mr Pete, Kieth Rucker, and Dale's videos from Youtube... and I still love tinkering and moving metal- ferrous, non-ferrous, precious and utility...

Here are my questions- for those professional as well as those who are hobbyists (and professional about that hobby!)

1- What am I looking at besides 4 years of grunt work?
2- Any pro's or cons I need to consider from your perspectives (or retrospectives)?
3- I am looking down the road- not just at my current position- I want to have a shop of my own- How should I approach this (Mentorship, work part-time for another guy, just do it out on my own?)
4- HOW do I start prepping for tool and die?

Just looking for opinions and thoughts to add filler to the decision making process as well as broaden my conversation outside my personal sphere.

And thanks for taking the time to read and hopefully share your thoughts! Be safe and as always- at peace.

KD

 

[ch2co]

First Kudos to your wife, she's a keeper. You are a very lucky man.
I say go for it, whichever you choose and see how it goes. Your young enough to spring back if you choose a road that's wrong for you.
The old adage goes, if you find a fork in the road, take it. I'm sure that you will get lots of suggestions as to the rest of your questions,
but I'm just offering you my perspective on life as a grumpy old guy.

CHuck the grumpy old guy

 

[P T Schram]

BTDT. Loved my short stint as a "professional" machinist. Boy Howdy did I learn a lot in the first few weeks of that job. Had they only increased my wages slightly and told me it was a permanent job, I would not have moved to Baltimore to go back to working as a chemist/elemental spectroscopist-that only lasted three months!

Start your schooling now at a local community college, etc. I got mine through the local school system's Adult Continuing Ed program.

Don't quit the day job until you're sure you like it.

Now, for the good part. whenever I have been unemployed, my skilled trades abilities fed me until the next engineering job opened up.

At my more experienced point in life, I'm too old to be running a backhoe or running sewer/water lines, but my skilled trade abilities will always be able to feed me.

 

[core-oil]

K D.

Follow your dream, but should the economics of not being able to support your good-self and your little lady, Be aware of the necessity of a fall -back employment scenario, which gives enough to live on, God forbid you need to look back, If you do not at least explore working with metals as a life times path, you will regret for ever not following your dream, I have the feeling you are a born metal worker, It is in your soul.
From my own perspective I thank the Good Lord that I was in the metal trade, working in four old time foundries , before ending up in education , & the Museum profession,
You are fortunate being a home worker in metal , This scenario has been my bent from the age of fourteen
You could do a lot worse than follow Keith Rucker and also Keith Fenner I have the highest regards for these craftsmen of the highest order , I tend not too enjoy Myford Boy or Mr Pete, (OK it is personal choice, and i, no doubt will get flamed) Rudy Kohoupt & Dale are excellent also, If you can find any old second hand I.C.S Correspondence School textbooks on engineering grab them, I have found them to be first class , Especially tool making, fitting & turning, technical drawing etc,
Remember Engineers are born not made-- Go for It.

 

[core-oil]

K.D. If you can get a hold of The Henry Ford Trade School textbook , for general machine work it is a good primer, Another good little book for a home craftsman is How to Run a Lathe, by The South Bend Lathe Company, I believe this book was reprinted in the 1960 era , Machining & its ethos can really get into a mans soul, I worked for a large firm decades ago, and when they closed down the director did not long survive its passing I guess he could not live without his beloved machinery, But there is no substitute for experience and learning by what you have achieved and your mistakes!

 

[BGHansen]

Hey, you can't beat getting paid for doing something you love! Just make sure the projected salary meets your life goals for household provisions. I have a few co-workers with kids who graduated in Philosophy and Art History. Both are working as parts sorters for suppliers in our assembly plant (I'm a quality engineer at the Lansing Grand River Plant where Cadillac ATS, CTS and Camaros are built). Both are earning around $15 per hour with their Bachelor's degrees (albeit in an essentially unemployable vocation). They had grand plans of $500,000 houses, but then reality and the need for Philosophers and Art History buffs hit home.

Plus side for your profession is there will always be a need for those who do the hands on work that others can't do and/or chose not to do. Machinist in the Lansing, MI area are earning around $25 - $30 per hour.

Bruce

 

[silverforgestudio]

<<First Kudos to your wife, she's a keeper. You are a very lucky man.
I say go for it, whichever you choose and see how it goes. Your young enough to spring back if you choose a road that's wrong for you. CHuck the grumpy old guy>>


Thanks Chuck- no worries on keeping her- she’s not only my wife- but a better shot than I am so I’m staying put! I have read several threads in this and other forums about changing paths- but never hurts to get the skinny from those more wise than myself… For example- I would NOT advise anyone to take on a life of a paramedic for love nor money (No money in public service- every fireman I know even ME has a second or third job to pay the bills)


<< Now, for the good part. whenever I have been unemployed, my skilled trades abilities fed me until the next engineering job opened up.
At my more experienced point in life, I'm too old to be running a backhoe or running sewer/water lines, but my skilled trade abilities will always be able to feed me. P T Schram>>

@ PT- No formal program avail at my community colleges- trades programs have gone “belly up” so Im at a loss there… And I agree the skilled trade ability with jewelry has put more than a few duckets in my piggy-bank when I needed it. I still do repair work and buy scrap when I can to get a few bucks. Thank you for the nod- at least I know I’m not alone in thinking to have a plan B!

<< I tend not too enjoy Myford Boy or Mr Pete… If you can find any old second hand I.C.S Correspondence School textbooks on engineering grab them… The Henry Ford Trade School textbook , for general machine work it is a good primer, Another good little book for a home craftsman is How to Run a Lathe, by The South Bend Lathe Company.>>

@CO- One of the things I did was outright purchase ALL the books from the old fellows estate- everyone was thumbing and pawing the tools- I asked his grand-daughter if he had any books… wood, metal, clockwork, fabrication and tooling- I even got a series of Atlas and Rockwell catalogues, Mason and Sullivan Clock-case blueprints and an old Starrett Tool guide in the mix- many of the titles you reference as well!

Two of the “tool gurus” there laughed when I started loading the books- but unbeknownst to them I had just bought ALL the manuals for the tools they were haggling over! I made my money back selling the manuals I had paid for ALL the books!

And I wont flame you for the Myford or Mr Pete- some folks just don’t take them like others- to each his own! I personally enjoyed Myford as I am into foundry arts as well… With the silverwork I learned investment casting- lost wax/Cire Perdue method- but aluminum and brass are better fitted for greensand and core methods… as before- no worries on your choices- they suit you- Im a beginner so I need the “grandfatherly-spoken” Mr Pete to simplify some concepts. Myford was instrumental in me learning cores and greensand (doing the Gingery builds this summer I hope).


Thank you guys for the feedback- anyone reading that may be afraid to comment- please don’t hold back- I need the good, the bad… AND the ugly…


By the way- My wife IS a better shot than me for real… so I will gladly make the coffee! HA! Be safe and keep it coming!


KD

 

[brino]

Hi KD,

Wife gets out of college- gets a job- notices Im still sad- encourages me to find my happy.

First, do whatever is required to keep that woman in your life. It is obvious that she truly cares for you.

Beyond that I have little to offer in way of advice. Only can say that many of us wonder if we could make it our day jobs.
I am currently keeping metal-work just a hobby, collecting tools and learning as much as I can.

Someday I hope to "retire" to metal work; and by that I do NOT mean that I won't be working everyday, but just working on the stuff I enjoy......

Another good little book for a home craftsman is How to Run a Lathe, by The South Bend Lathe Company, I believe this book was reprinted in the 1960 era

a couple copies of that book are available here:
http://hobby-machinist.com/resources/categories/south-bend.34/

I hope you do "find your happy".

-brino

 

[silverforgestudio]

Hey, you can't beat getting paid for doing something you love! Just make sure the projected salary meets your life goals for household provisions. (I'm a quality engineer at the Lansing Grand River Plant where Cadillac ATS, CTS and Camaros are built). They had grand plans of $500,000 houses, but then reality and the need for Philosophers and Art History buffs hit home.
Plus side for your profession is there will always be a need for those who do the hands on work that others can't do and/or chose not to do. Machinist in the Lansing, MI area are earning around $25 - $30 per hour.
Bruce

Nothing about philosophy or art history here- Im very practical on that front and have no grand delusions of riches without time in the craft! I am hoping this route puts me in a position to continue my education as well. Good to know the rates- Nationally its a bit lower from my research- and in my area it depends on the military contracts vs. budget cuts and sequester fears.

 

[David S]

KD, first it is so nice to hear that you and your wife are on the same page, and supportive of each others aspirations.

The part of your first post that caught my eye was the part where you mentioned having your own business. I am a strong supporter of small business entrepreneurs. I follow Keith Fenner, even though he does much larger stuff than I do..and ever will. He uses cnc for his plasma cutter, but most of what he does for all sorts of stuff is basic "old fashion" clever machining. Now he is in an area that has a lot of marine repair stuff and that must help him.

If you wanted to start a metal working business, are you aware of any machining needs in your area that aren't being met?

Check out all the opportunities and then go for it.

And above all good luck and keep us informed.

David