Dipping my toes into turning

Our makerspace had a shop fox gunsmith lathe that had the gear that had to be swapped to cut metric threads. This was seized on the shaft, probably due to a cocked key, so the lathe could only cut imperial threads. Shop fox was little help. They said just put a big fat gear puller on it and pull until it comes off or it breaks. If it breaks, it's on you! This was a 12" lathe, and I think my basket case South Bend 9 inspired more confidence. Everything was just more solid. That shop fox was always jamming something, the toolpost, the tailstock ram. It hadn't been dropped. It just had some odd design defects that made it flaky. It was also pretty loose, and much more aggressive cuts could be made on that old 9" lathe. That being said, my South Bend has been too small for the job a couple of times, and I would have appreciated a 1440. I started out with a Craftsman 109, which is basically a 3" lathe even though it is advertised as a 6. It was severely lacking, but I was still grateful to have it. It could still turn steel, but one had to be very careful due to a combination of the thin bendy spindle, loose slides and screws, and a bellmouthed chuck.
 
koenbro said:
Thank you for your suggestions David and especially for the curated list of tooling. I liked the similar three-tiered approach in your book on indexed tooling. Wil definitely refer to both as I am building up the toooling.

As for the lathe, I am very tempted by the conversion: start with the 1-ph, and once I learned how to use it (and recovered financially from the initial purchase) upgrade to 3-ph.

Trying to go smaller, I priced out a PM 1236 from Taiwan and it comes close to $10K -- at that point why not go 1340? PM does not offer Taiwanese 10-11" lathes.

I contacted Eisen and basically the 1324 is out of the race.

So I am converging on the 1340 size. As for the specific make/model, does anyone know if the Eisen version of the 1340 has any major design drawback or is it basicallly the same as the PM version? Does it have a Norton Quick Change mechanism and is that a problem?
After
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13x24?
The swing is adequate but it seems like it's been shorn of half its usefulness by being so short.
The 40" model would be my recomendation.
 
koenbro said:
Hello everyone, I am starting this thread to gather resources and ask questions about turning. I am about to put down the money for a new Eisen 1340 lathe. Have started to learn the basics of turning, by reading the SouthBend book by O'Brien and O'Brien. Have zero interest in grinding my own cutters, and would like insert tools, so have started reading @davidpbest 's superb book "Intro to Indexable Tooling."

Any advice to a novice? Anything about my choice of lathe I should know -- have not yet sent the money and have a last minute chance of walking back if a compelling reason emerges. By way of background, I looked at the usual hobbyist options (PM, etc) and have even toyed with buying a Hardinge from 1946 but as a complete and total noob, I cannot asses the wear and tear in an old lathe. So I have a strong preference to buying new Taiwanese, and not interested in old iron. Having bought a PM mill I am OK with them but am also ready to try smth different, hence looking at Eisen, which is probably similar in most regards, but slightly better value it seems. Initially wanted a 1324 but they are out so 1340 it is. Can not afford a 3-phase, thus will stay 220 V 1-ph.

Thanks in advance for all the help.
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What is your total budget?
Eisen lathe here state side is close to $10k new.
As a noob and for the most part “hobby broke”. I think I would be trying to find something used that comes with alot of the stuff that your going to buy anyway?
Im also in a mind set if your dropping $8-10k on a new lathe “budget” is not really a issue.

I have a general question about 3 phase. When you look at 3 phase equipment here its all high wattage
Beyond the 220v 200amp service in my home anyway.

Heck im looking at $3000 just for the run of wire out to the shop to get power our there,

Im a broke hobbiest , lol
Most of what I have acquired so far has been by the generosity of others.
 
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WobblyHand said:
Suppose it is all what you are used to... For a watch maker, a mini-lathe is huge. For someone turning flywheels for a power station, a 24" lathe is small potatoes.

Bigger tends to be better, many times, as it extends your work envelope. But bigger takes up lots of room, which not everyone has. Bigger uses a lot more power. Bigger is harder to get in place, if you don't have the equipment.

In the end, you have to get the machine that fits in your work space, your budget, and is within your capabilities.
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Good perspective.

I just bought a Sherline kit because 1) fits in a 7' x 10' workspace that also is my office; 2) just retired, budget is tight; 3) just starting out, and my foreseeable need is cutting HO scale parts from brass.

Guy I work with on a 1:1 scale railcar restoration crew has the same setup, he makes all manner of metal parts for the projects. Disclosure, he also uses a 3D printer to make brass casting patterns. He does cut steel with the Sherline, many light cuts without a power feed, he says "I'm retired, what else will I spend time doing?"
 
The 3 phase motors would be no different then single phase motor as far as power consumption, if anything they have a higher power conversion efficiency. If one is planning on using a VFD to generate 3 phase power for say the 1236T/1340GT, I would go with something like the Automation Direct GS-21P0 is ~$200, Electrical box ~$75, braking resistor (50-75 Ohm 500W) $19, speed pot $15-40, rotary 32A power disconnect switch $33, and figure maybe $50 in misc. items like wiring, crimps, etc. So in total you are in the $400-450 range and you get all the benefits of the VFD control.

The stock 3 phase motor on the lathes works just fine with a VFD, replacement inverter/vector motors are very limited and more pricey these days as very few will fit in the motor area of lathes with the motor behind the headstock. It would be a false economy to spend 8-10K on a lathe and then convert from single phase to 3 phase at a later point. The other key issue is that the electronic braking adds a significant control and safety factor in quickly stopping the chuck on lathes w/o a foot brake.

The Automation Direct GS21 VFD's work well, I have done a few lathe installs with them, they are easier to program with the software. I will be writing up some guidance on using them in the 1340GT basic VFD install instead of the WJ200 which is almost 2X the price. They support all the same features as the WJ200, they have better technical support.

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Optional:
 
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mac1911 said:
I have a general question about 3 phase. When you look at 3 phase equipment here its all high wattage
Beyond the 220v 200amp service in my home anyway.
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Not so. You come from 120V but at 240 V you need half the amps for the same power. Three horsepower is only 10 amps in the 240 V world, so household circuits can easily accommodate what we (in the hobby world) think of as a high power motor.

My wife is always impressed by the hair dryers in European hotels and asks me why she can’t have that at home.
 
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mksj said:
The 3 phase motors would be no different then single phase motor as far as power consumption, if anything they have a higher power conversion efficiency. If one is planning on using a VFD to generate 3 phase power for say the 1236T/1340GT, I would go with something like the Automation Direct GS-21P0 is ~$200, Electrical box ~$75, braking resistor (50-75 Ohm 500W) $19, speed pot $15-40, rotary 32A power disconnect switch $33, and figure maybe $50 in misc. items like wiring, crimps, etc. So in total you are in the $400-450 range and you get all the benefits of the VFD control.

The stock 3 phase motor on the lathes works just fine with a VFD, replacement inverter/vector motors are very limited and more pricey these days as very few will fit in the motor area of lathes with the motor behind the headstock. It would be a false economy to spend 8-10K on a lathe and then convert from single phase to 3 phase at a later point. The other key issue is that the electronic braking adds a significant control and safety factor in quickly stopping the chuck on lathes w/o a foot brake.

The Automation Direct GS21 VFD's work well, I have done a few lathe installs with them, they are easier to program with the software. I will be writing up some guidance on using them in the 1340GT basic VFD install instead of the WJ200 which is almost 2X the price. They support all the same features as the WJ200, they have better technical support.

www.vevor.com

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Optional:
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Very helpful for future reference.
 
davidpbest said:
If this is the Eisen machine you're referring to, then no - it doesn't have a traditional Norton gearbox that's external and drips oil like the PM-1340GT has. You wouldn't have to deal with this. The gearbox that drives the saddle/crossslide movement is built into the base of the headstock, and it will have its own enclosed oil bath.

That said, this is not a "universal gearbox" like you'd find on the PM-1440TL which can cut any tread type (including Acme, Metric, etc.) without having to swap gears on the banjo-side of the headstock. The Eisen machine looks to me like it's almost identical to the PM-1440GT in terms of the gearing, and unlike machines with a "Universal gearbox" you can expect to manually swap out gears under the cover on the left of the headstock to attain selected metric threading capabilities. Have a look at the manual for the PM-1440GT page 14 for a discussion of this. It's entirely possible that the Eisen 1340 is built in the same factory as the PM-1440GT and shares several components. The Eisen 1340 and the PM-1340GT are in the same ballpark weight of 1100 pounds plus the stand.
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Yes that is the exact lathe I am looking at. Thank you for clarifying the issue of thread cutting. Yes would like to be able to cut ACME and metric, so swapping gears sounds like a pain, but don't expect to do it often.
 
koenbro said:
Yes that is the exact lathe I am looking at. Thank you for clarifying the issue of thread cutting. Yes would like to be able to cut ACME and metric, so swapping gears sounds like a pain, but don't expect to do it often.
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong here as I have never cut a set of metric threads.
But my guess is the same 29 degree included angle of that thread Type covers both US - (imperial?) and metric too.
Most any lathe will cut acme threads.
That has to do with the shape of the tool and the angle of the compound rest. They'll cut V sharp, ANS, acme, square and who knows what other types of threads there are.
Whether it will cut imperial, metric, or both Pitches is the question.
I'd guess most of those off shore machines will cut both.
 
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