Economical way to level lathe

[Ultradog MN]

to that tube/beam. the vessel is free to move, but the lathe stays true to the tube/beam, regardless of what the deck does....

The deck flexes, twists and moves more than you might think.
If an oiler comes along side and pumps 500 tons of bunker fuel into it they try to put it in both sides of the ship - both fore and aft. Then say they add 125 tons of #2 diesel fuel. That might go aft, more on the port side which adds a twist to the ship.
Over all, they do a pretty good job of keeping it on an even keel but it is all relative.
Then a DD comes alongside for a repair on a fire main pump and while it's there you top off her tanks with 90 tons of bunker.
1" of twist or bend in a 500' ship isn't much but if you measure it with a precision level...
A quartering wind, even when tied to the pier can twist the keel enough to measure.
Ships are floppy, twisty, bendy.
I do dot criticize a guy who likes precision and I do not deprecate those who love exactness.
But for a new guy, keep it in perspective please.
Your shop floor moves - both summer and winter.
A chip stuck under a caster will twist your bench. Relative humidity can affect the wood.
Temperature can affect metal.
The OP asked about spending a chunk of change to level his lathe.
I say don't worry about that for now. Buy a QCTP instead. When his skills catch up to his equipment Then improve your equipment. The rest of it is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[great white]

The deck flexes, twists and moves more than you might think.
If an oiler comes along side and pumps 500 tons of bunker fuel into it they try to put it in both sides of the ship - both fore and aft. Then say they add 125 tons of #2 diesel fuel. That might go aft, more on the port side which adds a twist to the ship.
Over all, they do a pretty good job of keeping it on an even keel but it is all relative.
Then a DD comes alongside for a repair on a fire main pump and while it's there you top off her tanks with 90 tons of bunker.
1" of twist or bend in a 500' ship isn't much but if you measure it with a precision level...
A quartering wind, even when tied to the pier can twist the keel enough to measure.
Ships are floppy, twisty, bendy.
I do dot criticize a guy who likes precision and I do not deprecate those who love exactness.
But for a new guy, keep it in perspective please.
Your shop floor moves - both summer and winter.
A chip stuck under a caster will twist your bench. Relative humidity can affect the wood.
Temperature can affect metal.
The OP asked about spending a chunk of change to level his lathe.
I say don't worry about that for now. Buy a QCTP instead. When his skills catch up to his equipment Then improve your equipment. The rest of it is putting the cart before the horse.

I've got a fair bit of experience with ships, more with aircraft. I understand weight and balance very well. Part of my job was keeping the helo in trim before, during and after flight.

No wood in my bench, chips under a caster does nothing because the table is not holding the i beam, the i beam is basically holding the table. the lathe is bolted to the i beam. My concrete floor doesn't move with the seasons either; its a heated slab. Stays the same temp summer or winter. Consequently, my floor doesn't get the usual frost heave everyone else gets (hella nice to have a heated slab in winter!).

Everything twists and moves, no matter how heavy or thick. The reasons may be different (temperature, weight, loading, etc) but everything will move sooner or later. But that I beam is quite thick and heavy and I don't stress it to the point where deflection is a problem. Not to mention, the shape is also meant to impart strength and rigidity. Any movement is pretty minimal.

I've landed on a bulk carrier hatch before to medivac some poor sob who fell down a ladder 3 or 4 decks and was in a full body splint. The bulk hatch was at the rear of the ship near the superstructure and we were in pretty heavy seas (well, heavy for landing an H46 on the deck of a civilian bulk carrier). I remember standing on the hatch and watching the bow twist opposite the aft of the ship (we were running pretty much abeam the waves, with a slight angle to run down the backside).

I'm not talking a slight movement either. From my perspective, the front superstructure had to be twisting back and forth a good ten feet in either direction from vertical (part of my job was judging distance and I was accurate to within a foot or less in most cases).

I know it's designed to flex with the seas (rather than fatigue and break her spine or pop her plates), but I was never so happy to get the hell off a ship as that one....didn't help that the ship looked like it could have used a couple years refit in drydock. My pilots kept the rotors up to speed the whole time and I refused to get more than one foot off the ramp on to the ship. If they had to "flock off", I was sure as hell going to be "flocking off" with them!

I consider a machinist level to be a basic tool for a lathe. I didn't until I bought one, but have since seen the light. It lets you setup and recheck super easily. Hard to beat something you just set on the ways and wait for it to stabilize. Nothing to interpret, nothing to rig up, just set it down and go.

Relative to everything else you buy for a machining hobby, it's actually pretty cheap. 100 bucks or so for a used one and you've got it until your estate sale. As I mentioned, I keep finding more and more uses for it.

You certainly can set up a lathe without one though. Plumb bob, taper bar, the two rings thing, etc. Lots of ways to do it, but none as quick and simple as a machinist level.

Me? I'm happy as long as the front and rear ways are parallel to each other and perpendicular to the spindle....how you get there is a matter of personal choice (and personal finances).....


"

 

[mmcmdl]

It's just a lathe people.
Mark a line around a clear drinking glass then fill with water to the line. Move slide from end to end and note readings, adjust as required.
It shows you both directions at once.

I tried this method starting 30 ago and try every weekend now although I use beer . The lathe is still not level .

 

[sdelivery]

I tried this method starting 30 ago and try every weekend now although I use beer . The lathe is still not level .

That's because you are forgetting to draw a line around the glass err bottle then carefully drink until you reach the line

 

[RJSakowski]

To counter external forces causing twist, my lathe bench has a three point suspension. Three points determine a plane so the bench is well defined and not subject to deformation. I adjust for twist by shimming between the lathe bed and the bench.

The bench has two feet under the headstock and a single foot under the tailstock To prevent rocking or tipping of the lathe/bench, I have the two outer feet on the tailstock end adjusted for very light contact.

 

[Ultradog MN]

I've got a fair bit of experience with ships, more with aircraft. I understand weight and balance very well. Part of my job was keeping the helo in trim before, during and after flight.

No wood in my bench, chips under a caster does nothing because the table is not holding the i beam, the i beam is basically holding the table. the lathe is bolted to the i beam. My concrete floor doesn't move with the seasons either; its a heated slab. Stays the same temp summer or winter. Consequently, my floor doesn't get the usual frost heave everyone else gets (hella nice to have a heated slab in winter!).

Everything twists and moves, no matter how heavy or thick. The reasons may be different (temperature, weight, loading, etc) but everything will move sooner or later. But that I beam is quite thick and heavy and I don't stress it to the point where deflection is a problem. Not to mention, the shape is also meant to impart strength and rigidity. Any movement is pretty minimal.

I've landed on a bulk carrier hatch before to medivac some poor sob who fell down a ladder 3 or 4 decks and was in a full body splint. The bulk hatch was at the rear of the ship near the superstructure and we were in pretty heavy seas (well, heavy for landing an H46 on the deck of a civilian bulk carrier). I remember standing on the hatch and watching the bow twist opposite the aft of the ship (we were running pretty much abeam the waves, with a slight angle to run down the backside).

I'm not talking a slight movement either. From my perspective, the front superstructure had to be twisting back and forth a good ten feet in either direction from vertical (part of my job was judging distance and I was accurate to within a foot or less in most cases).

I know it's designed to flex with the seas (rather than fatigue and break her spine or pop her plates), but I was never so happy to get the hell off a ship as that one....didn't help that the ship looked like it could have used a couple years refit in drydock. My pilots kept the rotors up to speed the whole time and I refused to get more than one foot off the ramp on to the ship. If they had to "flock off", I was sure as hell going to be "flocking off" with them!

I consider a machinist level to be a basic tool for a lathe. I didn't until I bought one, but have since seen the light. It lets you setup and recheck super easily. Hard to beat something you just set on the ways and wait for it to stabilize. Nothing to interpret, nothing to rig up, just set it down and go.

Relative to everything else you buy for a machining hobby, it's actually pretty cheap. 100 bucks or so for a used one and you've got it until your estate sale. As I mentioned, I keep finding more and more uses for it.

You certainly can set up a lathe without one though. Plumb bob, taper bar, the two rings thing, etc. Lots of ways to do it, but none as quick and simple as a machinist level.

Me? I'm happy as long as the front and rear ways are parallel to each other and perpendicular to the spindle....how you get there is a matter of personal choice (and personal finances).....


"

Two people.
Two ways of getting the job done to their satisfaction.
All is good.

 

[verbotenwhisky]

I have an old metal lathe that I have been tinkering with/setting up since January. Was missing some parts but now operational. It was missing the bolts and plates in the base to level it up. I made a setup this weekend and have 1/2 inch bolts setting on steel plates to level it. I used a carpenters lathe to get it as level as this will tell me. One leg of the base was not even touching the concrete floor because some previous owner welded the base to the frame. Hopefully this will stead up the rocking vibration I was getting. I just need a more precision level to get it closer. I see used Starett machinist levels in the $150 range plus shipping. I hate to pay that for a tool I will use once, for 30 minutes, and store in a toolbox. Is there a more economical way to do this?

I bought an Accusize Machinist level off amazon, I do not remember what I paid for it but, it wasn't a bad price, works very well. I have used it to level my lathe, my granite plate and my Mill. I had a slight warp in the late bed which I fixed with 120 pounds of lead and it was good to have the level for that since I still check in ever so often. The issue I have is when all I have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail; so, I would prefer to have other tools available even if they are seldom used....

 

[CJ5Dave]

This has exceeded my comprehension on several levels, but I agree not to sweat it much. This lathe is a 1942 Sebastian, which I have read were on most every submarine. However mine does not have the Navy anchor stamp with the serial number. It is already ahead of no leveling at all. It weighs 2200 lbs so that should help stability. And I don’t have a NASA work contract. Thanks for all the input.

 

[dkemppai]

This lathe is a 1942 Sebastian, which I have read were on most every submarine. However mine does not have the Navy anchor stamp with the serial number. It is already ahead of no leveling at all. It weighs 2200 lbs so that should help stability. And I don’t have a NASA work contract. Thanks for all the input.

Everyone here is correct that the lathe doesn't need to be level. But, it is nice if they are. It's not that big a deal to level one with the right level. It can help you gauge twist, etc. A good level (~$100) may also help you determine way wear. That may aid your decision in how fussy you want to or can be. I never could get the 1940's Sheldon to where I was happy with it. Then it went out for a rebuild, where it was determined there was .030" combined wear on the ways and carriage. Leveling with that wear was frustrating.

The old Sheldon has a pretty stiff base and bed. But it also has 8 leveling screws!!! (Four under each cast iron cabinet, which forms the bases.) So a bit of a trick to get everything touching and carrying some load. A 1/8" of swing on end of a 12" wrench it is 0.00015" elevation. With the ~$100 level you can see the level bubble move with that adjustment.

Yes, for many things being that fussy overkill. But it's also possible to trust the lathe will do what it's told...

 

[verbotenwhisky]

Everyone here is correct that the lathe doesn't need to be level. But, it is nice if they are. It's not that big a deal to level one with the right level. It can help you gauge twist, etc. A good level (~$100) may also help you determine way wear. That may aid your decision in how fussy you want to or can be. I never could get the 1940's Sheldon to where I was happy with it. Then it went out for a rebuild, where it was determined there was .030" combined wear on the ways and carriage. Leveling with that wear was frustrating.

The old Sheldon has a pretty stiff base and bed. But it also has 8 leveling screws!!! (Four under each cast iron cabinet, which forms the bases.) So a bit of a trick to get everything touching and carrying some load. A 1/8" of swing on end of a 12" wrench it is 0.00015" elevation. With the ~$100 level you can see the level bubble move with that adjustment.

Yes, for many things being that fussy overkill. But it's also possible to trust the lathe will do what it's told...

Aim small miss small...