First Shaper, many questions

[Mikebr5]

You guys are a wealth of info. Much appreciated.
Steve Summers was one of the first I found after I had the shaper home safe and sound. Good guy.
But that Stefan Gotteswinter (https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl ) rubs me the wrong way... Grrr... How can a hobby garage type guy ever go to sleep feeling good about his day's work after watching Mr Gotteswinter do such work?! He is at once both an inspiration and the source of despair. heh J/k. Love the work that he does.
Bemmychree, thank you for the walk-through.
The Ram Head Swivel - can you tell me a bit more about that? I am trying to reconcile that with what I see on mine.
There are 3 of the 1/2" square drive on the ram... The one closest to the toolhead is the one that I assume would cause the head to swivel.
When I turn that one on mine, it feels like a stripped out thread lightly camming up and down... There doesn't seem to be any unlocking or turning going on.
The stroke positioning lock on mine is definitely a 90 degree movement... and there is a pin preventing it from moving too far in what feels like the unlock position.
When I try to move the ram with the middle square drive after unlocking, it turns but the ram doesn't move.
Regarding the lubrication- is the shaft into the column a two piece concentric? The clutch is outboard of the big pulley...

Sorry for so many questions... I feel like a little kid at Christmas who received a very cool toy that takes batteries, and no batteries in the house.

 

[Mikebr5]

There was a small wooden box under the table with a few toolholders and about 30 bits of a type that I hadn't seen before. Here are a couple of the toolholders.

 

[Tony Wells]

John, yes, I do. It's a 24" Industrial Universal. I've had it since '98 I believe. I haven't tracked the age down, but I do know it's an ex-Navy machine, as it still has the asset tag. I was told by the previous owner it came off a sub, and was converted from DC to standard 3 phase. It has a 10 hp motor. I didn't realize they had much of a machine shop on submarine craft, but I guess it's possible. Moreover, I was not aware that subs ran DC, although since the old diesel electric models ran on batteries while submerged, it does make sense.

I got the owners manual with it, for which I was thankful. I paid too much for it, but contrary to the popular saying, I made quite a bit of money with mine. Paid for several times over. There is a function I don't quite get, although I haven't put much effort into it, and it is what I believe to be a clapper lift mechanism, operated by a sheathed cable. Right now I don't have the clapper mounted, I have a rigid bar that I used cutting some internal gear teeth. I'll switch back and play with it some time. I got the original vise with it, and (I've told this story before) I loaned it to the shop I worked for to clamp on some long, relatively slender Inconel parts that we were milling just to add mass and minimize chatter. The vise was very heavy, and I failed to bring it back home as soon as they were done with it. My mistake. The company got bought, and the owner had a scrap-crazy brother and he grabbed it and sold it for cast iron. If they weren't so heavy I'd try to find a way to get one here. In fact, one of our members has a couple, but he's too far to drive just for that. Thinking about it though, I just had two small diesel engines shipped from eastern TN to here for I think $84, so maybe it isn't so bad. For now I just use a heavy mill vise, bolt the work to a tooling plate I mounted on the table, or as in the internal gear cutting I mount a superspacer on the plate, which has a keyslot just for that.

It's in pretty fair shape. Machinery Gray of course. The belt guard had a run-in with a fork lift or something and I haven't beat the dents out of it yet. I just removed it for now, since that side of the machine it nearly up against the wall, and there are no operator functions requiring my presence on that side. I should fix it in my "spare time". It must be older than you guys', as it has the mechanical clutch, but it's still tight. Oiling is a little touchy, as evidenced by some linear scratches (some would call the gouges) in the ram and flat ways. Not much way to fix it without Moglice or something, by my way of thinking. It works well enough though, so I doubt I'll be doing much to it other than look at the oiling system. I manually remove the caps on the top and fill them with oil, although some oil is getting up there with the internal pump. Everything inside is tight, and plenty of oil getting to the proper places.


Mike, when you get power to it, make sure the motor is turning the right direction. It is a simple stroking machine, but there is a difference in how things operate internally that does require correct rotation.

 

[Mikebr5]

Will do Tony. I bought the shaper just before I went away for a week at the end of January, so while I was in the hotel room I was reading up on shapers (and trying to watch videos on a lousy connection) as much as I could. Interesting mechanism to have it move faster on the return stroke.
If it was turning backwards the oil lube system likely wouldn't work as well.

The vise and table on this thing are pretty impressive, but I have seen others on YouTube that are even bigger.
This one rotates two ways : and has degree markings on both. Maybe rotates and pivots is a better description.
This is the only one that I have seen in my brief time looking that has two clamping screws on the clamp. Maybe they're common and I just have missed them.
Does anyone know which model this is? Tool room, industrial... are there more?

Here are 6 of the bigger shank (~ .435" ) tool bits that were in the wooden box :

 

[Mikebr5]

Here are the smaller shank tool bits. They are ~.375"


And the big tool holders:

I've heard and read the old aphorism that you can do anything with a shaper except make money. I'm curious why they have that reputation, and how you used yours in a profitable way. Care to share?

 

[benmychree]

Those are "OK" tool bits and holders; they were popular probably up to the 1950s for shapers and planers, not so much for lathes, especially after carbide came to be used extensively; I have a bunch of them that I use on my shapers (the G&E and the Pratt & Whitney vertical shaper) I also use the Williams swivel head shaper tool holder. The OK holders and bits were just the thing back in the days when forged tools prevailed; which when worn down, had to be re forged and re hardened and a lot of grinding done to be fit for duty again; think the difference between carbide inserts and hand ground tool bits, a much more efficient proposition with savings in time and money.
As to the tool slide swivel lock, just turn it CCW until it does unlock; it may take several turns. From what I see, there is not much difference between the industrial universal and the toolroom universal; I suspect alignment tolerences may define which is which. There were 3 vices offered, yours is the two screw model, mine has one screw in the center.
The quick return motion for the ram depends on the correct rotation of the motor so that it stroked slowly on the cutting stroke and returns quickly, and yes, the oil pump depends on proper rotation also. It is known as the Whitworth quick return motion, after it's inventor, who also developed the infamous Whitworth thread system, His machine tools were known for their spare use of iron, no material wasted where it was not needed.
Universal shapers have tables that tilt in two planes, semi universals only tilt in the direction that the ram travels.

You guys are a wealth of info. Much appreciated.
Steve Summers was one of the first I found after I had the shaper home safe and sound. Good guy.
But that Stefan Gotteswinter (https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl ) rubs me the wrong way... Grrr... How can a hobby garage type guy ever go to sleep feeling good about his day's work after watching Mr Gotteswinter do such work?! He is at once both an inspiration and the source of despair. heh J/k. Love the work that he does.
Bemmychree, thank you for the walk-through.
The Ram Head Swivel - can you tell me a bit more about that? I am trying to reconcile that with what I see on mine.
There are 3 of the 1/2" square drive on the ram... The one closest to the toolhead is the one that I assume would cause the head to swivel.
When I turn that one on mine, it feels like a stripped out thread lightly camming up and down... There doesn't seem to be any unlocking or turning going on.
The stroke positioning lock on mine is definitely a 90 degree movement... and there is a pin preventing it from moving too far in what feels like the unlock position.
When I try to move the ram with the middle square drive after unlocking, it turns but the ram doesn't move.
Regarding the lubrication- is the shaft into the column a two piece concentric? The clutch is outboard of the big pulley...

Sorry for so many questions... I feel like a little kid at Christmas who received a very cool toy that takes batteries, and no batteries in the house.

Questions of construction would be best answered by copying some pages from my parts list, I will look into it.

 

[benmychree]

The square shaft closest to the front end of the ram does not cause the tool slide to rotate, it just locks it into position. You may have to turn it several turns before it unlocks. The middle square should move the ram after it is unlocked with the rearmost square shaft.

 

[benmychree]

You asked about toolroom as opposed to industrial shapers, what is different? I replied that it was likely alignment tollerences, but I know which mine is because it is stated on the nameplate on the access door on the side of the machine.

 

[benmychree]

The nice thing about your two screw vise is that it can grip on tapered workpieces (just make sure the small end is at the left hand end of the vise viewed from the operator's position. The 3rd optional vise was the moldmaker's vise, it has jaws about twice the height of the other two.

 

[Mikebr5]

<snip> which when worn down, had to be re forged and re hardened and a lot of grinding done to be fit for duty again; think the difference between carbide inserts and hand ground tool bits, a much more efficient proposition with savings in time and money.
As to the tool slide swivel lock, just turn it CCW until it does unlock; it may take several turns. <snip>
Universal shapers have tables that tilt in two planes, semi universals only tilt in the direction that the ram travels.

Questions of construction would be best answered by copying some pages from my parts list, I will look into it.

Thanks very much for the help.
I was thinking similar thoughts about those bits... The bits and the holders are like artwork to me- trying to replicate by sharpening some of those edges and shapes without a jig would be frustrating.

The tool slide swivel lock- finally got it. It only took 1/4 turn, then tapped the square drive with a wooden mallet and the toolhead swiveled fine.
I am grateful for your offer of copying pages from your manuals, but I hate to be a burden.
Have you ever found that manual online?

The square shaft closest to the front end of the ram does not cause the tool slide to rotate, it just locks it into position. You may have to turn it several turns before it unlocks. The middle square should move the ram after it is unlocked with the rearmost square shaft.

Thanks to your descriptions I have them both moving the way that they should now. I don't know why the ram wouldn't move before... Pretty confident that I had the ram unlocked when I tried earlier. The square drive for the position turned, but the ram didn't move. Or I disremember.

You asked about toolroom as opposed to industrial shapers, what is different? I replied that it was likely alignment tollerences, but I know which mine is because it is stated on the nameplate on the access door on the side of the machine.

I wish that mine was similarly marked...
Mine does not have the serial number in the normal spot, and the only nameplate refers to it as STD SHAPER.
I think it is the full Universal model though... The table rotates, it has the saddle/swivel on the table, and the vise rotates also.

The nice thing about your two screw vise is that it can grip on tapered workpieces (just make sure the small end is at the left hand end of the vise viewed from the operator's position. The 3rd optional vise was the moldmaker's vise, it has jaws about twice the height of the other two.

Steve Summer's shaper looks like the tall vise. I thought mine looked beefy until I saw his.