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Fluxmaster 50 OCC Error

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Janderso

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#1
Hello,
I purchased this old Bridgeport several months ago.
When I went to see it before I bought it I was frustrated with an OCC error code. Not knowing anything about it I just reset it, it seemed to work after that.
I got it home and I find I have this intermittent issue as I had before.
In the "FM50" manual, OCC is"over current at steady speed".
According to the manual, the possible cause is;
1. Transient change in load
2. Transient change in power supply
Countermeasure;
1. Examine the loading configuration
2. Install inductor on power supply side

As I look at the pic, I see a ground wire going nowhere. Maybe I should provide a proper ground?
I hooked it up exactly as the previous owner had it. Hmmmmm.

Anyone else have one of these?
Any related wisdom to share?
 

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Cadillac

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#2
I had installed a teco vfd on my surface grinder and was getting a error like that on startup sometimes. I ended up changing setting to vector drive and solved problem??
 

JimDawson

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#3
Don't know if that will fix the OCC error, but yes, the ground from the wall should be connected to the drive, and the ground from the drive should be connected to the motor.
 

markba633csi

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#4
Add the grounds, it very well could make the difference
Mark
 

mksj

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#5
Not a lot of programming parameters, and none that I see specific to setting the motor parameters or overload. It could be that the motor is drawing more capacity than the VFD has available, so it may not be sized correctly. There could be some motor winding issues that may also trip the VFD. Ground should be attached, but I do not see how this would change anything in relationship to the OCC error.
 

Janderso

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#6
I'll fix the ground. Hopefully someone will chime in that has a similar issue with the same device.
Motor winding? NOOOOOOOO, but maybe.
 

CluelessNewB

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#7
F_18 Must be programmed to for your motor. This is based on what is on the nameplate of your motor and which particular flavor of the FM50 you have.

FM50_F_18.PNG
 

Janderso

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#8
I fixed the ground.
Now I have OCC, OCD and OCA.
Over current on acceleration
OCD, over current on deceleration
Over current at steady speeds.
I'd say I need to determine if this motor is pulling too many amps. But first, I'll see if I can change the settings.
I may need to buy a new VFD.

I think Mr. Clueless may be on to something.
Thank you
 

Cadillac

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#9
I had the same exact faults when I first installed mine on the surface grinder. You do need to put all the motor parameters in. Volts,amps,and rpm. I had asked for help on the forum and the responses were change to sensorless vector drive. Check parameter 00-00 default is 0 change it to 1 and see if it changes. You should put a amp meter on anyway to see what it’s pulling.
 

Janderso

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#10
That's encouraging. If I can figure out how to program this thing.......
 

Cadillac

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#11
Ah don’t be discouraged. It’s easy once you’ve done it nothing to it. When you hit the up/down buttons you come to a screen that has # flashing like 00-00 or 00-02 or 05-03. The first set of # is the group the second set is the parameter. You change the number by the up/down buttons. And I believe you hold the enter button till the number stops blinking. So you would scroll to get the numbers to 00-00 hit enter then a number will be blinking either 1 or 0. Change number to 1 then push and hold enter. That parameter is now programmed to 1 not 0. And so on so on. Read the manual acouple times till you understand it. Took me like ten times and they say the teco manual is one of the better ones.
 

Janderso

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#12
I screwed it up.
Now it goes about 5 rpm.
I don’t have a clue
 

Janderso

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#13
I’ll sleep on it then ?
 

mksj

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#14
When people run into problems with VFDs, it is often because a parameter is incorrect. I often recommend that they check and write down the current parameters and then do a factory reset of the VFD. With the FM50 this would be F25 = 020 which resets the default values for 60Hz.

I still maintain that there is no parameter for motor size/amps on this model. So if the motor nameplate amps exceed the VFD rated amps/kW the VFD will fault. This is a factor of the rated/actual motor amps vs. the VFD rated amps. There are two parameters that effect the acceleration load current and the short term overload. You can set F_13 = 05 which increase the torque compensation for starting torque, You can increase F_18 = 130% which is the short term (1 minute) overload, after 1 minute the VFD will fault if over 100%. I have attached a suggested parameter file, but I am doubtful it will change anything. In many cases a factory reset can help when people go too far down the rabbit hole changing parameters, but you need to know what you started with before you start changing parameters.

May review this video for programming, I also believe the default starting RPM is 5 Hz so this needs to be changed for the speed you want.
 

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Technical Ted

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#15
I've got two of those FM50 drives. One on my 2HP 2J Bridgeport and one on my 2HP South Bend lathe.

I've never seen any error code on either. Maybe I'm just lucky. Here are my recommendations:

Do these tests/measurements with the VFD on full 60 Hz.

1- Verify that the drive is the correct size for the motor for BOTH HP and current. Just because the HP is rated the same doesn't mean that the maximum current rating is the same. Some older motors draw higher current for the same HP rating.
2- Check your input voltage. Mine is 240 volt single phase. Make sure yours is within the proper range.
3- Check the current draw on each line for both the input (supply) voltage and the output (3 phase) voltage and make sure it's in the proper range.
4- Check the output voltage and verify it is correct per the motors connections.
5- Make sure all connections are tight. This includes the motor lead connections for setting the proper voltage (230 vs 440). Loose connections will draw more current.

That should be a good start.

Others have suggested VFD settings so I won't go into them, but if you have a question about how I have mine set up for certain things I can check and let you know.

Good luck,
Ted
 

Janderso

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#16
Before I go buy a tester to test for amp draw and current flow.
I have news.
The VFD plate shows this unit is for a 2HP motor. I may have found my "Over Current" problem.
I am attaching the Mill motor plate and the VFD plate.
Thank you for your help.
I need a new VFD don't I?
What is the most cost effective fix?
New Acer knee mill?

<< The motor plate says @220v 60hz, 3.5 amps---1HP--3PH
>>The VFD plate is more readable
 

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Technical Ted

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#17
Current should be fine since the VFD's maximum output current (7.5 A) is higher than the motor's maximum full load current (3.5 A) as long as the motor is wired for 220 volts. But, the only true test is to use a current meter to see what is actually being drawn by both the VFD and motor, since if there is a problem that's the only way to detect it.

As long as your VFD is rated equal to or higher than the motor you should be fine. So, if the motor draws less full load current than the VFD's maximum current output you should be fine as long as the output voltage of the VFD matches the input voltage of the motor. It's fine and probably even better that the VFD is rated a higher HP/max current than the motor. But again, the only way to tell the "actual" current draw and voltage output is to use a meter since the nameplate only specifies the design and rated values.

A current clamp meter is a very valuable tool to have in your tool box. I suggest you look into getting one or maybe you can borrow one.

Ted
 

Bob Korves

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#18
Also check that the motor and the wires going to it are set up correctly for the voltage you want to use. The previous owner may have set it up wrong.
 

Janderso

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#19
That's good, I have enough VFD!
I bet it's just a programming issue. Or wiring, or operator error.
Dang, I am way over my head on this one.
Thanks guys. I'll get it.
 

JimDawson

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#20
What is the most cost effective fix?
New Acer knee mill?
I'm liking that option :grin:

Sounds like programming or maybe a motor issue. The problems seemed to get worse after you properly grounded the system. That might indicate shorted windings in the motor. A quick ohms check with a multimeter might shed some light on the problem.
 

Technical Ted

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#21
See my post here about the issue I had with the original 3 phase motor that came on my 13" SB lathe (read the 1st post):

https://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/new-motor-for-my-sb-13-lathe.69608/#post-585610

I'm not saying that this is what your problem is, but it's something to keep in mind. Without current and voltage checks you'll never really know. But anyways, let's hope it's either a wiring or programming problem. Do you have a manual for the VFD? What model is it? It's slightly different than mine since mine will only accept single phase supply voltage. Maybe that's a parameter to check in your programming??? I don't know if it is or not.

Ted
 

Janderso

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#22
Thanks Ted. Nice Lathe!
I am going to pick up a tester today.
Stay tuned
 

Technical Ted

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#23
Thanks. And I might very well have the same model VFD as you. Mine are both FM50-202-C. I was wrong. Mine will accept a 3-phase input. I just checked.

A current clamp meter will let you see what's going on current wise and a very good investment for a lot of troubleshooting you may have to do in your shop and home.

Ted
 

CluelessNewB

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#24
Are you using that switch shown in the motor picture? Is it wired between the VFD output and the motor input? If the answers are yes, that's a not a good thing. There should be nothing between the output of the VFD (T1, T2, T3) and the actual input of the motor except the wires connecting them. Switching should be done using the low voltage terminals of the VFD. You can probably use the existing switch connected correctly to the low voltage inputs of the VFD called the "Multi-Function Inputs" in the manual. You will also need to program F_03 (Operation Mode) and F_10 Start/Stop Control.
 

Janderso

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#25
That’s the stuff
Thank you
I have a new test meter, I’ll attack this tomorrow
 

Janderso

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#26
Good news!
I picked up a "Ames AC Clamp Meter at HF. I checked the 3 legs of my genuine Bridgeport motor.
3.96
3.98
4.01
Looks good right?
I made some changes to the acceleration time - 5 seconds, and I ran solid dedicated soldered grounds from the motor wiring, from the VFD base to a water pipe.
My mill has been running normally now for over 10 minutes!!!
Whew, I am relieved to see the windings are ok.
Thanks guys!
I am feeling pretty good so far this morning.
Jeff
 

Janderso

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#27
When I turn it off I still get a OCA, "adjust to proper VF curve" "Increase acceleration time" heck I have it at the factory 5 seconds.
Any thoughts on what that means?
VF pattern is 1-6, 1-3 is 50hz, 4-6 is 60hz.
I have it set to 6, I have tried 4 and 5?? No change.
At least I can reset and use it!!
 

Janderso

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#28
I just disconnected the ground. It ran for 5 seconds and shut off. Relates to "transient change in power supply?"
This thing is very sensitive.
 

Technical Ted

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#29
As far as grounding goes, I don't know the electrical code in California, but here's a Reader's Digest version of how it goes in NY state. Your main breaker box where power comes into your home is bonded to ground, meaning that the box (metal case) and the common/neutral line(s) are tied directly to ground, which is typically a copper ground rod driven into the ground nearby. This is the ONLY spot the system should be tied to ground. Water pipes make excellent grounds (as long as all the pipes are copper/steel and not plastic), but connecting a ground wire or common wire to ground in additional locations can cause ground loops and a lot of problems. I don't think it would pass your electrical code, but I'm not sure. You can ask an electrician or someone that knows their stuff in this area for your state.

What I would do is use wiring that brings in a ground from your breaker box along with the power lines that feed your VFD and use this for your ground. Tie this ground directly to the VFD ground connection, the motor housing, switch housings and machine.

Just curious, what is your input voltage supply voltage (actual measurement with a meter)? What is each leg to ground?

Good luck,
Ted
 

Technical Ted

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#30
This is what I would do if it was mine.

Verify all wiring is correctly connected and in good shape. That’s probably a dual voltage motor and I would undo and inspect the connections in the motor’s box to verify they are correctly configured for 220 volts and that the wires are not broken in the connections. Wire nuts sometimes will break strands off the ends of wires and the connections go bad. You’ll have to remove the wire nuts (or open the connections if taped) to check. Make sure everything is properly grounded. There’s a diagram in the manual showing a couple of methods for doing this. I assume you are supplying the VFD with 220 single phase. One hot leg goes to L1 and the other goes to L3. The ground coming from your supply voltage goes to the ground terminal on the VFD housing. The ground also connects to the motor casing and machine.

I would check the input voltage across both legs and each leg to ground to make sure it is balanced and at the proper values.

I would reset the VFD to factory defaults and start from there as a base. If you want to go through and write down the setting you have now go ahead. I believe the unit should run OK with the factory defaults. Mine ran fine with the defaults.

Who knows what the previous owner did not only in the VFD settings, but in the wiring as well.

So, after doing this you will have verified your supply voltage, verified the wiring is correct and connections are all good and the VFD is configured to a known good configuration that should allow the motor to properly run. Then go from there changing a single VFD parameter at a time and work up slowly. To start with I would probably only change minimum Hz, maximum HZ, how you plan on controlling the unit (speed pot, external switch, etc.) and that’s it for now. If the base settings aren’t broken, don’t fix them. :)

Good luck,
Ted
 
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