Going To Buy A Lathe... Thoughts, Input Solicited By Inexperienced Dufus

That's a lot of rotating mass to instant reverse, but the lathe will probably do it. There is a good chance that reverse on that lathe is accomplished by a mechanical clutch rather than reversing the motor. Pretty sure the For/Nut/Rev is mechanical on that lathe.

You can instant reverse a 3 phase motor with a RPC and you can do it with a static phase converter also, at least I've been doing it for the last 20 years on my 3hp lathe. There are very few machining operations where you need instant reverse, power tapping for instance. But I normally plan the operation so I don't have to.

Jim, I'm glad you guys are here and built this place. I have sooooo much to learn. So then let me ask, in what circumstances are instant reverse used, apart from power tapping, which you mentioned. Not that I have to worry about it at the moment... Just curiosity from a newb...

Thanks!

Mark
 
Mark,

I wouldn't instant reverse a motor on a gear head lathe period. One way to wipe out some gear teeth in the headstock. Look at your pictures of the electrics, if the big starter has two sets of contactors, then yoy have to reverse the motor. If only one large contactor, then you have a reverse clutch built into the headstock.

Ken
 
I really can't think of another instance. Metric threading may require reversing the spindle out of the cut without disengaging the half nut. In the case of threading to a shoulder, I normally turn the tool upside down, and run the lathe backwards so it is cutting away from the shoulder.

Ken is correct, in general it not a good idea. If I have to reverse I let it coast down and then reverse.
 
Ken, based on what I can figure out so far, and looking at a schematic for a much older version of the lathe, I'm guessing it's a single contactor, but won't know for sure until I can more fully examine it. Besides, I think some of the electrics are missing. Not sure, and won't know now for a couple weeks.

Jim, I think I understand what you're saying. Interesting. I am very anxious to be able to make my trip and round up my lathe. It's paid for, sitting there, waiting... That's okay. I have to go get some steel for my dolly/cart thing anyway. Won't unload it from the trailer until that's built. And won't be able to easily go by the steel shop without the trailer, so...

Get my steel, order my casters and hardware, work on getting a phase converter, figure out wiring on that... Then unload the lathe from the trailer onto the cart... Then begin figuring out the wiring/contactors/motor and other electrical issues... Maybe by Thanksgiving I'll have a running lathe? Or maybe a little optimistic...

Lots of cleaning to do. Tons. Big project, but I have to say, I enjoy such things a good deal.

Thanks!

Mark
 
Onward to the electrical: I've been doing some more research, and I've found a few pictures of a '69 DLZ 503 for comparison because it's so favorably in many respects. There are differences. Let me post a few pictures for discussion. These are snagged from a site called "exapro.com" which I take it is a listing site dealing in used machinery. Again, this is a '69 DLZ 503:
dls503_front_flatter_annotated.jpg
On the front, I notice the item up top(Box 1)... What is that. Looks like a gauge of some sort. Box 2, I point only only to contrast to the machine I purchase, where the red and black dots indicating the ranges are situated more like a "V" with respect to the shifter fulcrum. This one, it forms a right-leaned "V". Interesting difference, but I'm sure insignificant. In Box 3, you see here two buttons and an indicator lamp, I suppose to tell you the machine is on. On and off switches to its left. On mine, there are two additional switches to the left of these three items, one for "Lamp" and one for "Coolant Pump", using iconography of a lightbulb and a faucet, respectively. Lastly, one of the subtler differences is this sheet metal that covers the belts et al on the end of the machine. If you look at box 4, you'll see the sheet metal is smoothly rolled over the corner on that slope. On mine, it's a hard corner.

Now, where it gets interesting:
dlz503_rear_annotated.jpg
Box number 1 is a cover that is present on mine, and seems to cover the end of a splined shaft that 4GSR has speculated is some sort of accessory drive. Interestingly, this seems to be (one of)the thing(s) that makes the difference between a 502 and a 503. When I look at pictures of the respective models on Google, those with this cover are all 503s and those without are 502s. Box number 2 is completely absent on my machine, and I suspect that's where all my missing electrical pieces would go. That's a guess. Seems reasonable. Maybe they took it off to look at the motor, or maybe it got damaged somewhere, or who knows, but it certainly isn't present on the machine I inspected Saturday. Box number 3 is a cover, and what it covers is this: (on mine, and I suspect on this one from exapro.com as well):
rear_box_electrical_reduced_annotated.jpg
(I must have smudged the camera lens on my phone, because from about four pictures before this, every one after is cloudy/murky like this...I blame grease and grime.)
The four red boxes in a row at the top are labeled R S T N. I expect those are the three phase wires, plus neutral. Just out of frame here, is a ground wire that comes from the same bundle and bolts to the chassis directly to this component's right. The box to the lower left is to show that a chunk of the plastic of the component's housing is knocked off, broken, and probably has been that way for some time.

Lastly, this is the data plate on the motor on mine:

motor_data_plate.jpg

I can tell this is almost certainly the original motor because the use of commas in place of decimal points is a German thing. This is one time when being married to a native of Bavaria comes in handy. So 220/440v, 38.76/19.38 amps, 60HZ, 1750 RPM, and what the rest means, I have only guesses. If I had to tell you the physical frame, I'd guess it's very similar to 254T, based on the spread of the mounts and the size of the shaft(though I didn't measure the latter.)

Now my speculation would be that this lathe was probably taken out of service whenever that box disappeared. If the box was removed to access the motor, which is missing its electrical cover plate, then there's a pretty good chance the motor is toast. To remove the motor, you'd almost certainly have to remove that electrical box. Heck, to see the data plate pictured above, you'd have a hard time with that box in place over the motor.

So, for all you experienced hands, what can you discern from all of this?

Thanks!

Mark
 
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By the way, one more question: I assume these motors can be rebuilt/refurbished. Any of the Texans here know anybody who does that?

I found one outfit in Waco, looking for closer.... But again, a little ahead of myself yet.


Thanks!
 
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consider using rubber machine mounting feet made for mounting purposes. not too expensive. they are based on machine weight. level easily ab absorb vibration.
 
Mark,
The electrical box indicated as "2" may/will vary from lathe to lathe that was built. They may build fifty of them as shown in the posted picture and then five that have a different electrical enclosure and components. And there's a very good chance that the panel and electrics was changed out over the years. 've seen this many times over the years past. As for the "auxiliary" shaft, that could of been an option that was supplied on the lathe you have too.
Ken
 
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