Gravers for turning

[mikey]

This thread reminded me that I need to get myself a lathe, don't know where to begin looking for one but there's only so much one can achieve with just a small mill.
Mike just imagine how many questions i'd have for you and the rest of the gang here.

Bring on the questions, Ken, but the lathe itself will teach you more about metalworking than any other machine in your shop. I can get by without my mill; I cannot get by without my lathe so I agree - get one!

There are tons of threads on this subject and I would read them but I would also suggest you start a thread of your own as you begin your search. Every time we discuss this subject, I learn something from some guy who thought of something that never occurred to me or asks a question that is obvious to some and not others. As you home in on a lathe that interests you, the guys who own that lathe will chime in and then you really learn the nuances of that machine. I love that about the HM community - everyone helps and it is very cool to see.

 

[mikey]

I have in past years warned woodturning students to hold on to chisels firmly;
if one loses one's grip, the chisel can do a 180 and embed itself in your fore -
head! Look at Really Old metal turning pictures and see Mighty Men free -
handing forgings with four- foot handled " Gravers" !.....BLJHB.

A good friend of mine is a bowl turner. One day he hit a knot and his 30" long tool flew up and over the lathe, right through the wall of his shop and out into the yard behind the shop. I just happened to be standing behind him when this happened and both of us stood there, eyes about the size of dinner plates, speechless. For us, being speechless is not something that happens often so it was a memorable experience.

Luckily, a graver tool rest is set about 1/8" away from the work and even a bad grab just bumps the tool handle upward a bit. Not too dangerous but your warning is well received and regardless of our set up or experience level, it is wise to be careful. Thank you!

 

[mikey]

The video I pointed to in the original post is wrong.

I reviewed my videos and found that I made an error on the specific video containing the most graver-specific information. The better video is: Graver Making & Hand Turning for Clockmakers and Modelmakers. I apologize for the error.

 

[chips&more]

Please don’t get me wrong. I totally drool uncontrollably when I see timepieces from our ancestors. They made works of art from nothing more than basic tooling. And that includes using the graver. It definitely had/has a place in the trade. But I have been using the cross slide and the graver has been collecting dust. I have been doing micro machining for about the last 40 years. Have made every moving part in a watch, but not a complete watch...yet. I have found the cross slide a world apart from graver use. I also do a little plunge grinding when micro turning. But like I said, nada on the graver. To each his own…Dave.

 

[mikey]

Please don’t get me wrong. I totally drool uncontrollably when I see timepieces from our ancestors. They made works of art from nothing more than basic tooling. And that includes using the graver. It definitely had/has a place in the trade. But I have been using the cross slide and the graver has been collecting dust. I have been doing micro machining for about the last 40 years. Have made every moving part in a watch, but not a complete watch...yet. I have found the cross slide a world apart from graver use. I also do a little plunge grinding when micro turning. But like I said, nada on the graver. To each his own…Dave.

Sorry Dave, somehow I missed your reply. I don't do horology stuff so I'm not in a position to have an opinion about that. However, I do have a lot of experience with gravers and find them indispensable. As you say, to each his own.

I think the value of these tools is that they allow me to add a personal touch to my work and enable me to do things that I otherwise wouldn't be able to do or that would be difficult and time consuming.

 

[Dave Paine]

A follow-up to show I did give this a try. I wanted to see how this felt before I make a graver and a tool rest for the metal lathe.

I turned a small piece of aluminium on the metal lathe so one end would fit a 3/4in ER32 collet. I have an ER32 collet chuck for the wood lathe. Lots of speed control on the wood lathe and several tool rests.

I have a wood turning tool with a long diamond shape carbide insert. Called an Easy Wood Detailer. I am not fond of this tool with wood. The tip is round, not as pointed as a graver, but it was the closest to a tool with flat face and point.

I had tried turning aluminium a couple of years ago before I got a metal lathe. It did not work well. I was using wood turning technique.

With the information from this thread and a YouTube video I held the tool at top centre on the piece, speed set to 500 rpm. This worked well. I felt to have a lot of control.



I will now make a graver. I am pondering whether to make a tool rest for the metal lathe, or just use the wood lathe. If i use the wood lathe, I am constrained to the few ER32 collets I have at present. 1/8in increments. If I use the metal lathe, I need to make a tool rest. I know this is not difficult.

Thanks for inspiring me to give this a try.

 

[mikey]

Great post, Dave, and I hope it works out for you. Just so you know, the rest should be hardened and it should have a sloped front like your rest in the photo. The reason is that the graver is used with about a 15 degree up-angle for everything but brass and your tool has to have room to be angled like that; brass has a zero or flat approach angle so it doesn't dig in.

The rest should be about 1/8" away from the work and low enough so that a graver tip held at the right angle touches the work roughly on center. Done this way, the graver will shape and cut as aggressively or as lightly as you wish. They are simple to use; hope it works out. If I can help, let me know.

 

[Dave Paine]

Thanks for the information. Good to know the nuance of 15 deg vs flat for brass.

The tool rest in my picture is made by a company called Robust which makes wood turning lathes. They also make tool rests which have a piece of 1/4in drill rod welded on the top. This is hard and so far has survived many a wood turning catch with hardly a ding.

Perhaps I just need to make a way to mount my Robust tool rest in a holder to mount on the metal lathe. I also like the shape of the Robust tool rests.

 

[mikey]

Thanks for the information. Good to know the nuance of 15 deg vs flat for brass.

The tool rest in my picture is made by a company called Robust which makes wood turning lathes. They also make tool rests which have a piece of 1/4in drill rod welded on the top. This is hard and so far has survived many a wood turning catch with hardly a ding.

Perhaps I just need to make a way to mount my Robust tool rest in a holder to mount on the metal lathe. I also like the shape of the Robust tool rests.

It will probably work. The support for the tool rest needs to be robust but I bet the rest would work well.

 

[Rex Walters]

Dang. Now I've got yet another project clamoring for my attention! I've got to make one of those tool rests and some gravers.

Seriously: great post. I'm frequently needing to turn knobs and levers for various jigs and tools. I've had some success by cutting steps with a parting tool to make the outline of a curve, then filing away the steps. Doing it the right way seems way better, though (certainly a lot faster).

Apropos of this, I got to visit with Gary Sneesby at Eccentric Engineering a few days ago when I was down in Melbourne (which is why I'm now wide awake at midnight my time, but that's beside the point). He showed me a new prototype tool he's got in the works for manually turning metal that really piqued my interest. I probably shouldn't say too much about it since he's intending to market it commercially, but it doesn't use a traditional graver and tool rest. Instead it uses a specially ground tool in a fixed holder (kinda like a miniature candlestick holder) that you can freely slide around on a flat base. He said he's still working on it, and it's a long way from being available, but I want one.