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Help fitting new cross slide gib on Grizzly 12x36

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Mutt

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#1
Hey y'all. the cross slide on this lathe is pretty cheap cast iron. This is the third one now i have replaced in 20 years. They sent the cross slide and a gib. The gib was too long (on purpose I suppose), but me not thinking things over before cutting the gib, I cut the short end off. Well, that was a bad idea, because when I installed it. I found out I should have cut the large end off, cause it sure didn't fit.

So can I get some info here, on how I should fit this new gib the right way? The second gib I ordered took 4 months to get here from China.................. I don't need that to happen again.

Thanks for y'all's help

Mutt
 

benmychree

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#2
I'm guessing that you would have to reduce the thickness of the gib by whatever means, so that it goes in to near the proper depth and then scrape it to fit, then cut off the large end if necessary, and possibly the small end as well if the ends project too far.
 

markba633csi

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#3
Mutt: before you start cutting could you post some pics of the parts and the lathe itself? Closeups are best- 4 months is a long time to wait for a part, some pictures will get you better responses
Also, do you have a milling machine? If so you can make gib strips yourself
Mark
 

Mutt

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#4
Yep, I have a 9x42 Bridgeport and loots of tooling for it, but looking at this part, I'm not sure I'm experienced enough to make this part, but I might have to be open for the challenge with having to wait 4 months. Why cheap pig iron? Why not just carbon steel?

I took these right before I made the post but forgot to post them. That lathe is a Grizzly G4003 I bought new in 1999.

Underside of new cross slide and gib
DSC00526.JPG
large end
DSC00528.JPG
 

aliva

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#5
I have a similar issue with my King 12x36. I have the new gib I cut the thick end. Now the issue is thickness. I have to shave about .035 the total length of the gibe. Since the gib is tapered I had a difficult time shimming the gibe level without increasing defections while milling. I'm going to put it on the belt Sander and whittle it down. Hopefully that should work.
 

Mutt

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#6
how much of the big end did ya cut off? Can ya post some pics as ya belt sand it in relation to how it fits the gib slot as ya go, little byb little
 

Cadillac

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#7
Use a mag chuck on mill to cut tapered gibb. Then surface grind it followed by scraping. First I would blue it and check the fit.
 

markba633csi

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#8
"Why cheap pig iron?" The operating word here is "cheap". Obviously they do intend you to hand-fit it by cutting one or both ends, then filing or sanding the thickness to fit.
Have you considered making a brass gib? They slide very nicely and brass is fairly easy to machine. Mild steel would also be ok. If you break the cast iron one again that is.
Agree with Cadillac: use Dykem or High spot blue to check the fit as you go. Maybe make a jig out of aluminum with setscrews to hold it on your mill to machine it? (if you don't have a mag chuck)
Mark
 

Mutt

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#9
So I remove my tool post, compound slide and the old cross slide and gib. What next?
 

Cadillac

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#10
Clean all mating surfaces, put compound on saddle center on saddle. Blue the gib and inert carefully to not scrap bluing. Tap lightly on gib. LIGHTLY to seat. Pull and check fitment. Once you have contact to full surface on both sides I would mark your extreme ends. Heavy of course check twice. Then check again! Then cut it. Did I mention check before u cut? Then you can bore end and put the slice in it for screws. All with careful measuring. Twice! Leave the small end to cut till last and put the slice a touch back so you get more travel out of gib.
This should all be down after a bluing of each compound surface and dovetails to be able to evaluate the condition of compound matting surfaces. At least that’s what I would do.
 

Mutt

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#11
Ok, I'll start here and post some pics
 

aliva

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#12
I removed the old damage gib and had to cut off about 1-3/8" from the thick end. I'm in the process of sanding the gib down to the approximate thickness needed.
I have to remove about .030" I attached the gib to a piece of wood with double sided tape and held that against the sanding belt. It's a slow process as the gib heats up pretty quick. It's cast iron, so I let it air cool between sanding's. When I get close to the final dimension I'll use some bluing to bring things a little closer. Since the gib is tapered, I just have to be close as the adjustment screws will take up the rest. My cross slide has a set screw midway along the length of the slide to prevent any defection during adjusting. If yours has this, remember to remove it when fitting the new gib.
 

Mutt

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#13
Yes, mine has the center screw on the right side of the slide.

Can ya post some pics of what you are doing?
 

aliva

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#14
Sorry no pics. but it's straight forward. I layed the gib on the belt sander ( my sander can tilt vertically or horizontally). I made a small wooden frame to hold the gib because it get't dammed hot fast. I just kept sanding and trial fitting till I was satisfied with fit. The gib should slide the entire length of the cross slide and stop even with end of the slide at the dial end. The adjusting screw can now take up any slop. (You may have to grind a lip on the large end of the gib for the adjusting screw to grab onto). I tightened the adjusting s screw till there was no more sideways movement. The side set screw is used to take up any forward movement of the slide. Once this is achieved tighten the rear adjusting screw snug without making the slide too tight on the ways. That's it, a little fiddling till you get the right feel. My slide has .0001" movement forward and backwards, according to my DRO
 

Mutt

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#15
which of the 4 sides did ya grind?
 

Cadillac

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#16
Your height should be pretty close and will be about the measurement of the height of the dovetail. Measure from bottom slide surface of cross slide to the underside of topslide. You probably want to measure the distance between dovetails on saddle with dowels. Then place gib on cross slide upside down. Slide gibb and take measurements of those distances between dovetails. That should give you a ruff measurement of what the gibb should be. Depending on the surface from the factory on the gib I would take the material off both side to try and equalize the stress being put on the gib. It will bow you don't want to heat it up on a belt sander. Once you get the gib within acouple thou. You need to blue and scrape it in. It's gonna move all over the place from machining. That's why scraping is the best and final thing.
 

aliva

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#17
As Cadillac pointed out keep the heat down when sanding that's why I let mine air cool between sanding's. The height of the gib should be close so just grind the sides till it fits. I never bothered to blue mine or scrap it. I don't have scrapper anyways. As I mentioned before, the set screw half way up the side of the cross slide will allow for some adjustment to reduce any deflection in the dove tail.
 

Mutt

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#18
Ok, so I understand that the height is pretty close as is. So I need to sand the sides until what? The gib is as long as the table, so some has to be cut off, so it can be adjusted. Where do put the 2 adjusters? Half way of their limits? I can do the work, I just need to know everything I can ,before I actually start grinding. 4 months to get this one, I can't wait that long for another gib. Measure twice, grind once
 

Richard King 2

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#19
Next time someone has this problem I would get a mount the new gib and you have a surface grinder and magnetic sign to do it that way. If you don't have a sign, but have a surface grinder mount on a magnetic chuck and raise one end until the taper is then grind it with coolant or at least with a squirt bottle. Another way if you don't have a surface grinder but have a milling machine. Get a piece of flat bar stock of at least 3/8" thick and then mount by drilling holes thru the bar and either use flat head screw counter sink the holes or Allen cap screws counterbore the holes, transfer some holes into gib and drill and tap the gib to fasten it to the flat and them mount the flat and gib in your mill vise and mill it.

Most do not know how to scrape unless they have taken one of my classes or bought my DVD to watch. Or bought a Connelly book Machine Tool Reconditioning that I also sell. You can look at several You Tubet if the shows that will show you how. Stefan G has a great one. He's take 2 of my classes.
Hard to believe you have worn out 2 cross-slides and needed to replace them or the gibs. Does the machine have oil holes ? Does the gib have oil groves? Some pictures would help us figure out the lube issue. Post 4 does not show lube holes or oil grove. We can help you with installing them, but pictures of saddle top would help.

I see on page 37 of manual http://cdn2.grizzly.com/manuals/g4003_m.pdf it says it has ball oilers. but with out oil grooves of oil pockets the oil will not do much. You should have .0005" to .001" slop in the gib fit so you have an oil film. .0001" is to tight. Rich
 
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Mutt

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#20
The original 20 year old gib was fine I think, but the cross slide is a poor quality pig iron and is really brittle. When ya tighten the compound after turning it to a different degree and re-tighten the hold down bolts. It screws up the under side. This has happened twice. So when I ordered the 3 cross slide, I ordered a new gib and chunked the old one. Went to install the new one and or course screwed it up. Here's some pics of the new cross slide.

It has oil holes Red is for the half nut for the cross slide, blue for each side of the dovetail, yellow is where the casting generally breaks apart. I try not to over tighten the 2 bolts, but the casting still chips
DSC00654.JPG
set screw for taking up gib slop in center
DSC00655.JPG
here is teh slide sitting the way it would installed on the lathe. Gib sticks out about 1 ½" or so
DSC00657.JPG
small end, flush.
DSC00658.JPG

So where do I start? Screw in both adjusters half way in their movement and ???
 

Richard King 2

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#21
You know those new parts are suppose to be fit on the machines. The cross-slide doesn't automatically fit , they are match fit by scraping. I wish I could say transport me down Scotty and I could come and help you. I just checked and your 75 minutes away from my friend Steve Watkins who is a great machinist and really good scraper. He as hosted 4 scraping seminars and wants to host another one in February 2019.

He loves to barter. I bet if you loaded up your lathe we would help you fit everything. You can see some of his info online as he owns "The Beast" a Rockford planner and a shop full of nice machines. You need to besure that the gib is fit right, the cross-slide and saddle fit good and he could scrape or grind as he has a nice surface grinder. PM me and I can give you his email .
Pic's: Steve Watkins and his planer doing a mill table. scraping a small cross-slide, Oil grooves in machine and measuring compound
 

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Mutt

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#22
seems it would be way easier for me to just remove the top of the saddle and take just that to him. PM me with his info.
 

Cadillac

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#23
And that hole on the side of the cross slide is your table lock for the cross slide. NOT a deflection screw for gib. Shouldn’t be touching when fitting the gib. Good luck.
 

Richard King 2

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#24
I would leave the lock screw loose if I were doing it. I relieve the middle 40% of the gib so it doesn't touch by .001" as a matter of fact. The picture of the gib, (there is another thread on here and I am mixing them up I think...lol.. but it's a Asian machine too). There is no oil groove in the gib, that oil ball is gravity feed and if there is no groove cut into the top to a groove in the gib you are guessing it gets oil. The one picture of the bottom side of the gib is so rough that needs to be smooth. I wonder if the other side that rides on the way is like that? You could just take the saddle to him but before you take it apart set a magnetic base on the bed (on a sheet of paper to protect the bed) and rest a dial indicator on the top of the saddle between the ways and see if that surface is parallel to the bed. Then take a 1 2 3 block and set it on the flat ways, 1" side down and also see if the flats are parallel to bed. That would help in knowing how to scrape the cross-slide.

Now I am going to say something that may seem a bit odd. Those small Asian machines were not built very precision compared to a American or Germany machine. That's why you can use it even when it is obvious its less quality. Many worn out American machines machine's still work. I know a guy who buys the Asian machines to get castings and rebuilds them so he gets a cheap good cutting machine. So Mutt if you have a pro help you fit the ways and gib, assure it has adequate oil grooves and oil paths, scrape oil pockets in the ways and gib. Your machine will end up better then new. If you check You Tube and look up how to set a tapered gib you can see 3 or 4 students of mine using an mag base and indicator setting the gib clearance on mills, but it works the same way on a lathe. you gib and cross slide should have .0005" to .001" shake or movement on both ends. The clearance is for an oil film on the ways. PM sent with Steve's info. Rich

PS: I either wrote the wrong name on google maps last night or you moved. You about 3.5 hours away.
 

david sobel

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#25
The original 20 year old gib was fine I think, but the cross slide is a poor quality pig iron and is really brittle. When ya tighten the compound after turning it to a different degree and re-tighten the hold down bolts. It screws up the under side. This has happened twice. So when I ordered the 3 cross slide, I ordered a new gib and chunked the old one. Went to install the new one and or course screwed it up. Here's some pics of the new cross slide.

It has oil holes Red is for the half nut for the cross slide, blue for each side of the dovetail, yellow is where the casting generally breaks apart. I try not to over tighten the 2 bolts, but the casting still chips
View attachment 270681
set screw for taking up gib slop in center
View attachment 270682
here is teh slide sitting the way it would installed on the lathe. Gib sticks out about 1 ½" or so
View attachment 270684
small end, flush.
View attachment 270685

So where do I start? Screw in both adjusters half way in their movement and ???
 

david sobel

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#26
The original 20 year old gib was fine I think, but the cross slide is a poor quality pig iron and is really brittle. When ya tighten the compound after turning it to a different degree and re-tighten the hold down bolts. It screws up the under side. This has happened twice. So when I ordered the 3 cross slide, I ordered a new gib and chunked the old one. Went to install the new one and or course screwed it up. Here's some pics of the new cross slide.

It has oil holes Red is for the half nut for the cross slide, blue for each side of the dovetail, yellow is where the casting generally breaks apart. I try not to over tighten the 2 bolts, but the casting still chips
View attachment 270681
set screw for taking up gib slop in center
View attachment 270682
here is teh slide sitting the way it would installed on the lathe. Gib sticks out about 1 ½" or so
View attachment 270684
small end, flush.
View attachment 270685
G003G
So where do I start? Screw in both adjusters half way in their movement and ???
Looking at your pictures of where it is breaking tells me your compound base is not flat. I bought a G4003G about a year ago. When I disassembled it to clean the bottom of the compound looked like it was finished with a angle grinder. Used a fly cutter on my mill then lapped it. If there are any gaps when you tighten the two nuts it will break the cast iron. If the two parts mate properly the cast iron is under a compression load. I dont think that the little tee bolts can generate enough presser to crush the cast iron
 
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