Help getting the first milling essentials

[mikey]

As for the South Bend 9(s), it seems easy enough to get up a drawbar for the type of collet chuck that uses a solid rod. I have yet to find the type of collet chuck that uses a tube.

Given the value of the ability to pass stuff through the collet and on through the spindle, mounting an ER chuck to a back plate seems like a better idea than a tube connecting to a MT shank.

 

[Jim F]

Thank you for that. It suddenly opens up many more sets that can be used.
I am looking to ER32, especially for lathe, because they easily clamp with a compression nut from the front, so much easier to clamp and let go. Also, by recommendation from @DavidR8 , who has already purchased and tried out an MT3 set.

I will take out the mill drawbar, get a look down the hole, and figure out exactly what this machine needs.

As for the South Bend 9(s), it seems easy enough to get up a drawbar for the type of collet chuck that uses a solid rod. I have yet to find the type of collet chuck that uses a tube.

I use 3C collets in my SB9.

 

[graham-xrf]

I use 3C collets in my SB9.

For those who don't know, what is the difference between 3C and 5C collets?
I think 5C collets chuck is like a tube with a thread on the end, and one can have tuned work stick right through.
I would look them up, but it will have to be tomorrow. My timezone is zulu.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
I decided to purchase a Chinese DRO with 1um linear sensors. The cost seemed only minimally more than the prevalent 5 micron types. It was even less than some 5 micron resolution types advertised. I will post the details of (low cost add-ons) later.

I choose ER32 for collets, but not purchased yet until I have researched the drawbars, collet chucks, etc.

Looking back at the original recommendations, there still remains parallels, some cheaper type HSS end mills, a face mill, tap follower, and a edge finder. @Mitch Alsup warned against "junk" fly cutters, and @Lo-Fi mentioned they are a desirable thing to have. I was thinking that fly cutters fling chips everywhere. We are left with unknowns.

Q1. What are the types, styles, features that make for a junk fly cutter. Naturally, what does a "good" fly cutter look like.

Q2. If one invests in a face mill tool, does that make a fly cutter redundant? What I am going after here is to discover if there is a motivation left to use fly cutters. Better finish? more versatile? More economic? Sharpenable?

 

[Jim F]

For those who don't know, what is the difference between 3C and 5C collets?
I think 5C collets chuck is like a tube with a thread on the end, and one can have tuned work stick right through.
I would look them up, but it will have to be tomorrow. My timezone is zulu.

- - - - - - - - - - - -
I decided to purchase a Chinese DRO with 1um linear sensors. The cost seemed only minimally more than the prevalent 5 micron types. It was even less than some 5 micron resolution types advertised. I will post the details of (low cost add-ons) later.

I choose ER32 for collets, but not purchased yet until I have researched the drawbars, collet chucks, etc.

Looking back at the original recommendations, there still remains parallels, some cheaper type HSS end mills, a face mill, tap follower, and a edge finder. @Mitch Alsup warned against "junk" fly cutters, and @Lo-Fi mentioned they are a desirable thing to have. I was thinking that fly cutters fling chips everywhere. we are left with unknowns.

Q1. What are the types, styles, features that make for a junk fly cutter. Naturally, what does a "good" fly cutter look like.

Q2. If one invests in a face mill tool, does that make a fly cutter redundant? What I am going after here is to discover if there is a motivation left to use fly cutters. Better finish? more versatile? More economic? Sharpenable?

Collet Set, 3C, Set of 7 1991

3C Collets & Collet Closers 1991 Set of seven 3C round collets range in size from 1/8" to 1/2" by 16ths; Includes 1/8", 3/16", 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", 7/16...

littlemachineshop.com

3C collets are smaller than 5C, they only go to 1/2"

there are good videos on making flycutters. thet can cut bigger sizes than a face cutter and leave a nicer surface finish..
Both have their uses.

 

[Lo-Fi]

You'll make a far bigger mess with a face mill then a fly cutter. Inserts need to be driven hard and fast or you just trash them (there's almost a weekly thread with someone asking why their inserts on their face mill don't last. They're always running them too slowly for one reason or another). HSS Flycutters are slower, having only a single point, and don't need to be driven so fast.. I have a six insert face mill I run when hogging that fires a stream of blue steel bullets off like a Gatling gun. I only ever run it with the table going right so they're ejected toward the column, not me. They hurt!!!
A flycutter is a flycutter... They're simple things: just a holder for a piece of HSS at a particular angle. A nice afternoon project if you want to roll your own. There's really not much to it. The piece of HSS is more important than the holder IMHO! The cutting tool itself isn't vastly different from a lathe tool grind, though there are some cunning oblique designs. You can put insert lathe tool holders in them too, of course.
Face mills are great, but not essential unless you're in a hurry. Almost forgot to mention that face mills can demand quite a bit of power and rigidity from a machine.

 

[mikey]

I don't own any junk fly cutters but I know what they look like. Check ebay; they often come in sets of three sizes and are meant to use brazed carbide or HSS tooling. If you know how to grind HSS well then they will work but the more modern and useful designs all use carbide inserts.

A fly cutter is intended to produce a flat surface with a decent finish. Some can even do limited stock reduction and some can even cut to a shoulder to produce ledges. Most fly cutters have only one cutting element so power requirements are usually lower; this is beneficial on smaller benchtop mills that lack power and rigidity. Because that cutter is hanging way out there and cuts a single chip, that chip WILL go flying quite a distance unless contained. For most hobby guys with smaller mills, a fly cutter is the way to go.

A face mill will have anywhere from 1-6 inserts so they are more costly to own. These inserts also have to be precisely set at the same level and then you need to power and rigidity to drive them. While smaller face mills, like the 1.5-2" models, can function well on a small mill, a fly cutter will usually do the same thing for a lot less money.

I use a Tormach Superfly and it is pretty good. Inserts last quite some time and the tool cuts well with a 3/4-1HP mill. It does not cut to a shoulder and this is a disadvantage.

I also use a Sherline flycutter that is essentially a single insert face mill with a 1-1/8" diameter. It can run at high speeds to produce beautiful finishes. It can also do stock reduction and it will cut to a shoulder. I use this tool much more than the Superfly.

I used HSS fly cutters for years and I also know how to grind the tool. My advice is to go with a fly cutter that uses inserts. They work just as well and when the insert wears, just index it.

 

[Larry$]

To start, I would skip the face mill. I've got cheap Chinese fly cutters that work fine. For sure I'd use a collet system on the lathe that allows pass through. I have a Shars Toolmakers vice. OK but I made new internals for it. Mostly it gets used clamped in the Kurt to hold work at some odd angle. Or mounted to the rotary table. My CNC router uses ER32 tool holders and work great. When it comes time to get collet blocks for the mill you can get ER or 5C. Try to standardize on one collet system. I use 5C on the lathe, spin indexer, collet blocs and tool grinder. BTW, I don't see anything wrong with unboxing in the living room.

 

[Jim F]

Anothe advantage to having collets for the lathe, you can reverse thread!!!!
This applies to 3C and MT3 collets, only.