Help with VFD conversions - Leblond lathe 15x30 with 3HP & Bridgeport 1970's with 1hp

[Chris19210]

All,

To start it off I am a bit overwhelmed with all of the various models and wiring application types of VFD's. Below are the images I felt would be needed to provide sufficient feedback. Beneath the photos are additional details.








I am working within a shop approximately 100ft away from my household 200 amp breaker box. The shop is only wired for 110 currently. My hopes were to convert the 1HP 3 phase mill via a 110volt VFD on the current breaker. For the lathe I anticipate running 220 volt with a VFD to power the 3 phase 3HP. I have seen several recommendations for a Teco model...I would say $200 on the 1HP and $250 on the 3HP is the upper band I would like to be at from a cost perspective-It appears this is reasonable from what I am reading and for the limited work these machines will see. However, if the quality at this price-point is believed to be undesirable I'm open for opinions.

Here are my questions:
What VFD is recommended for the 1 HP 3 Phase Mill?
What VFD is recommended for the 3 HP 3 Phase Mill?
Can I run a 30 amp breaker 220 for the lathe-will also be used for small wire welder, etc..?
If so, what is the recommended wire size?
Not crucial but I would like to maintain current power switches on the machines, is this reasonable?
What am I missing?

The control box for the lathe does not appear to have loaded correctly, if that is the case I can email to whomever is willing to assist. By all means my electrical know how is lacking...please forgive any ignorant questions.

I am restoring/servicing the machines now so I have a week or so before placing an order. Thanks ahead of time for the assistance

-Chris

 

[CluelessNewB]

Who said these motors were 1hp and 3 hp?

The smaller Delco (mill?) motor draws 9.6 amps, this is more like 3hp. I don't know of any 110V input VFD's that will power that motor. Although VFD's have a "hp" rating it's really the current rating that is important. For that motor a VFD like the TECO JNEV-203-H1 would be appropriate. It's capable of up to 10.5 amps but it is 220V input, they run about $215 + shipping.

I see 2 other plates one that says 14 amps the other 13 amps. Is one for the motor and the other for the entire machine? Maybe a coolant pump or ???? Either way this starts getting expensive, most single phase input VFD's max out at about 10.5 amps. Some 3 phase input VFD's can be run on single phase input at reduced capacity but that means buying an even bigger VFD which means even more $$$.

You may want to consider a Rotary Phase Converter (RPC) to power both machines it would probably be cheaper than buying two VFD's but you will not have speed control other than what the machines themselves have. It will allow you to use all of the built in controls unchanged. I have no experience with RPC's but I'm sure others can help.

 

[GerryR]

VFD's would probably not be your best choice if you want to maintain full functionality of the existing machine controls.

Here is a link to both static and rotary converters. A 5 hp rotary converter will run up to 5 hp worth of motors. They are a little pricey but you maintain full power of the machine motors. The static converters are less expensive and have to be chosen according to the individual motor hp. They can run multiple motors, but there are other things to consider when doing so. I find it better to allocate one converter per machine / motor. The disadvantage of the static converters is you only have 67 % of the motor hp available.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=562&PARTPG=INLMK3&PMITEM=297-3805

If you contact Phase-A-Matic directly, they are very helpful and will advise you about what you need.

http://www.phase-a-matic.com/

I hope this helps.

 

[Chris19210]

Who said these motors were 1hp and 3 hp?

The smaller Delco (mill?) motor draws 9.6 amps, this is more like 3hp. I don't know of any 110V input VFD's that will power that motor. Although VFD's have a "hp" rating it's really the current rating that is important. For that motor a VFD like the TECO JNEV-203-H1 would be appropriate. It's capable of up to 10.5 amps but it is 220V input, they run about $215 + shipping.

I see 2 other plates one that says 14 amps the other 13 amps. Is one for the motor and the other for the entire machine? Maybe a coolant pump or ???? Either way this starts getting expensive, most single phase input VFD's max out at about 10.5 amps. Some 3 phase input VFD's can be run on single phase input at reduced capacity but that means buying an even bigger VFD which means even more $$$.

You may want to consider a Rotary Phase Converter (RPC) to power both machines it would probably be cheaper than buying two VFD's but you will not have speed control other than what the machines themselves have. It will allow you to use all of the built in controls unchanged. I have no experience with RPC's but I'm sure others can help.

The HP was take from the nameplate on the motors. The mill is 1hp and lathe 3hp.

My post may not have been worded clearly but I am looking to convert the mill using 110v given it is only 1hp - not the lathe. My take on the lathe is the total machine is between the 13-14 amps(according to the control box and lathe nameplate)...there is a coolant pump which I am not as concerned with now - or the lamp . The amps on the lathe motor tag says 9.52 with 220 volt.

Thanks for assistance!

 

[CluelessNewB]

The HP was take from the nameplate on the motors. The mill is 1hp and lathe 3hp.

My post may not have been worded clearly but I am looking to convert the mill using 110v given it is only 1hp - not the lathe. My take on the lathe is the total machine is between the 13-14 amps(according to the control box and lathe nameplate)...there is a coolant pump which I am not as concerned with now - or the lamp . The amps on the lathe motor tag says 9.52 with 220 volt.

Thanks for assistance!

So the Delco motor is the lathe motor. If yes then the VFD I mentioned will run that motor but probably not the other stuff, you need to figure out what that other stuff is and if it requires 3 phase power. If the other stuff requires 3 phase it gets more complicated if it's just a light and a single phase pump it should not be a problem just a bit more wires and switches.

You say the mill motor is 1 hp. What is the amperage on the name plate of that motor? Again to clarify selecting a VFD is really based on amperage not hp!

 

[Chris19210]

Re: Help with VFD conversions - Leblond lathe 15x30 with 3HP & Bridgeport 1970's with 1hp



- - - Updated - - -

Here is the site to the model I was referencing:1HP 115 Volt -- USE AS A PHASE CONVERTER PLUS GET VARIABLE SPEED, Model JNEV-101-H1, Single Phase Input ONLY, Three Phase Output, variable frequency drive, variable frequency drives, ac drive, vfd, afd, frequency drive, drive, inverter, adjustable sp


The tag on my mill motor states amps/hp as followed: 200/4(50 cycles) 200/3.8(60 cycles) and 230/3.3(60 cycles). The VFD say it has a constant torque of 4.2 - greater than what the motor indicates. Am I missing anything?

The lathe seems like a real pain in the ass...it has 3 motors from what I can see. One for a coolant pump(1/10hp & .2amps), one for the main drive (3hp & 9.52 amps), and one for ??? (feed) ??? (1/2hp & 2.5 amps). This takes me to a total of 12.22 amps. They are all 3 Phase.

Thank you.

So the Delco motor is the lathe motor. If yes then the VFD I mentioned will run that motor but probably not the other stuff, you need to figure out what that other stuff is and if it requires 3 phase power. If the other stuff requires 3 phase it gets more complicated if it's just a light and a single phase pump it should not be a problem just a bit more wires and switches.

You say the mill motor is 1 hp. What is the amperage on the name plate of that motor? Again to clarify selecting a VFD is really based on amperage not hp!

 

[CluelessNewB]

Yes that JNEV-101-H1 looks fine for the mill.

The lathe is a problem. You will either need 3 separate VFD's (3hp, 1/2hp and 1/4hp) or go with an RPC. The two small motors could use relatively inexpensive VFD's (about $125 each) but still it all adds up to a significant total. If you go that route you may want to stick with all the say brand and series of VFD's just so you don't need to learn all the idiosyncrasies of each type. Don't forget that after you buy the VFD's you still need an enclosure and controls.

If you go with an RPC you might as well use it for the mill also this is probably the path of least resistance.

 

[Plum Creek]

Hi Chris
I agonized over the choice between VFD's and rpc's when I bought my mill and eventually bought a Hitachi sj200. It works well, and I really like it. (Hitachi provides great support) Since then I have purchased a 10" bandsaw also 3 phase and am keeping an eye out for a small lathe. Considering the new additions, If I had to do it over I would have bought a rpc sized for the max anticipated shop load. It would have been a lot cheaper in the long run.
hh

 

[Chris19210]

Ok RPC it is. I'll go forward with using it for both the mill and lathe as suggested. What model / supplies will I need?

Thanks guys.

 

[Plum Creek]

Ok RPC it is. I'll go forward with using it for both the mill and lathe as suggested. What model / supplies will I need?

Thanks guys.

There's an abundant supply of information on how to build an rpc.
I havent started on mine yet and it has been a while since I researched this subject but I plan on finding an inexpensive 3ph motor throwing a capacitor on it to get it to start and thats about all there is to it. (Well except for circuit and motor protection) The rpc motor size should be equal to or greater than the hp of all the motors that you expect to have running at the same time.
hh