How to equip a PM 935

[Kiwi Canuck]

Alex, I don't think I saved much if anything, maybe a few hundred on the entire shipment.

The broker I used took a week to clear the machines and I spent days back and forth with Matt getting paperwork as the shipment comes listed as all the individual parts so they needed the import codes for every single piece.

I would not recommend it as a way to save money, but technically it should cut down on delivery time.

The problem with LCL shipments is after the container arrives at the destination port (Vancouver in this case), the container gets delivered to a warehouse and then it's broken down which increases costs and time.

We import parts from China for our business and they are also shipped LCL, after the first few shipments it all runs smoothly, with these machines it's a one-off thing so all the pain for very little gain.

Only went with power feed on X axis and have no plans to add anymore at this time.

Cheers.

David.

 

[Kamloopsendo]

David thanks so much for the time to respond, I now understand why you tried the import thing yourself and I'll PASS - based on your comments. Talked to an industrial supplier in Ottawa a couple of months ago who market Lillian (a nice Taiwanese machine) units and he indicated that most of thier manual stuff goes out with Power feed on the x only so that's consistent and seems a good way to start.
Again, thanks for taking the time.
Alex

 

[blue_luke]

Also, another one of you Canadian fellows made a comment on another thread (which I am sure I will never find again) that it was a lot cheaper to have the electronics (power feeds, DRO's, etc) shipped directly to you from Taiwan for example than for it to come along with the machine because of the import taxes or something. I have no idea if this is true or not.

That was me... and I need i have to add a bit of precision.
If you order DRO, power feeds etc... and they are mounted already on the machine, making them actually part of the machine,
then we almost never pay duties.
It's when you order latter on from the US, not just Matt's, electronic equipment that you get hit with taxes and duties. I've been there!

In Canada, and most countries, if you import something from abroad that is Canada, or your own country this is where you get hit! Canada makes very little machinery, if any! of the type we use. But Canada does have a thriving electronic industry so to me, the best way to order this type of stuff, is from ebay and Amazon and make sure the stuff does not come from the US but rather directly from Asia.
The first DRO I bought was from a private Ebay sellers who sold it used... Something like $200CDN, I had to pay about 70$ of taxes and duty.
I just received a 3 axis DRO with all the scales from Hong-Kong (about 340$ CDN) and I payed 27$ duty fees to DHL!

 

[Kamloopsendo]

That was me... and I need i have to add a bit of precision.
If you order DRO, power feeds etc... and they are mounted already on the machine, making them actually part of the machine,
then we almost never pay duties.
It's when you order latter on from the US, not just Matt's, electronic equipment that you get hit with taxes and duties. I've been there!

In Canada, and most countries, if you import something from abroad that is Canada, or your own country this is where you get hit! Canada makes very little machinery, if any! of the type we use. But Canada does have a thriving electronic industry so to me, the best way to order this type of stuff, is from ebay and Amazon and make sure the stuff does not come from the US but rather directly from Asia.
The first DRO I bought was from a private Ebay sellers who sold it used... Something like $200CDN, I had to pay about 70$ of taxes and duty.
I just received a 3 axis DRO with all the scales from Hong-Kong (about 340$ CDN) and I payed 27$ duty fees to DHL!

Interesting 'cause that is a very different experience from mine in dealing with Matt (and other American suppliers). I've consistently had to pay PST and GST on stuff I've brought in from the US or Asia. I'm not aware of paying "Duties" or "Taxes" other than GST and PST on any shipment from the US and I do bring in a fair bit of stuff myself. Sometimes - in particular with USPS the item will come thru competely without tax, not even PST or GST applied. Mark Jacob's $900 US control system came thru completely free of tax via USPS.
Alex

 

[blue_luke]

Interesting 'cause that is a very different experience from mine in dealing with Matt (and other American suppliers). I've consistently had to pay PST and GST on stuff I've brought in from the US or Asia. I'm not aware of paying "Duties" or "Taxes" other than GST and PST on any shipment from the US and I do bring in a fair bit of stuff myself. Sometimes - in particular with USPS the item will come thru competely without tax, not even PST or GST applied. Mark Jacob's $900 US control system came thru completely free of tax via USPS.
Alex

You live in BC, is there HST there?
In Quebec the first time I ordered from Matt (2012) I had to pay GST and PST to the the service Canada counter.
I ordered a new machine from Matt and I had to pay only GST.
I received last week a DRO set from Hong-Kong via DHL and I paid only GST
Before Christmas I received from China via Chinapost some circuit boards and components to build audio amplifier modules and was charged GST, PST and duties!
Last year I ordered 2 kits of audio amplifier from Ebay, the guy saying that he was selling from the US to find that he sends the stuff to a US address and then have it shipped to me. I ended up paying US import taxes, and then had to pay again on the total price from the US!. And it also cost me transport from China to US, then from US to Quebec!
The guy was not dishonest, he simply thought it would be more convenient for me and him to go this route, we both were unaware of the outcome.

That is the origin of my post!

But you are right, often I will get stuff in envelopes or small boxes without any taxes, or just GST, or both GST and PST... I guess it has to go with the phase of the moon or planet alignment!!

 

[Kamloopsendo]

You live in BC, is there HST there?
In Quebec the first time I ordered from Matt (2012) I had to pay GST and PST to the the service Canada counter.
I ordered a new machine from Matt and I had to pay only GST.
I received last week a DRO set from Hong-Kong via DHL and I paid only GST
Before Christmas I received from China via Chinapost some circuit boards and components to build audio amplifier modules and was charged GST, PST and duties!
Last year I ordered 2 kits of audio amplifier from Ebay, the guy saying that he was selling from the US to find that he sends the stuff to a US address and then have it shipped to me. I ended up paying US import taxes, and then had to pay again on the total price from the US!. And it also cost me transport from China to US, then from US to Quebec!
The guy was not dishonest, he simply thought it would be more convenient for me and him to go this route, we both were unaware of the outcome.

That is the origin of my post!

But you are right, often I will get stuff in envelopes or small boxes without any taxes, or just GST, or both GST and PST... I guess it has to go with the phase of the moon or planet alignment!!

We have GST with a separate PST and if I carry stuff across the line myself (from the US) I invariably will get nailed for both but NEVER have I paid duty. AND if the item is small is less than $100 or so usually they just wave me thru without any taxes. Thru the mail we're in agreement one never knows what will happen with HST, PST or GST but so far out of the US I've never been charged "duty" although yes if the US charged a duty to import it into the US before it gets shipped to you then you have in effect paid that duty and likely PST gst HST whatever on the duty just to make it hurt a bit more!!! Lots of fun.

 

[Rich V]

Good choice OP, I have the same mill.
I'll give you a suggested list of tooling that I use and can't do without.
Get the DRO and power feed(s) installed by PM.
I have this vice, very high quality: Glacern Machine vice
I suggest you get a set or R8 collets and a set of ER32 collets. Amazon has a good selection
If you get the ER32 collets get the R8 - ER32 adapter fro here: https://www.glacern.com/er_collet_chucks
Get a good quality drill chuck with an integral R8 shank. I have this one R8-DC500 https://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks
Get a parallel set, Amazon again has a good selection. parallel sets
You will need a variety of mill cutter tooling. I'm partial to solid carbide as it cuts well in any material and won't dull if run dry unlike HSS. If the cost is too high then HSS end mills are fine. Buy name brand if you have the $$.
I also suggest buying some roughing end mills These are great for fast chatter free metal removing when you need to remove a lot of material. You rough out the part then finish with a regular end mill.

That will get you started. There are lots of other accessories but I assume your not Bill Gates so spending more on tooling than the mill cost now will be out of the question.

Best of luck, it is a fun hobby.

 

[Kamloopsendo]

Good choice OP, I have the same mill.
I'll give you a suggested list of tooling that I use and can't do without.
Get the DRO and power feed(s) installed by PM.
I have this vice, very high quality: Glacern Machine vice
I suggest you get a set or R8 collets and a set of ER32 collets. Amazon has a good selection
If you get the ER32 collets get the R8 - ER32 adapter fro here: https://www.glacern.com/er_collet_chucks
Get a good quality drill chuck with an integral R8 shank. I have this one R8-DC500 https://www.glacern.com/drill_chucks
Get a parallel set, Amazon again has a good selection. parallel sets
You will need a variety of mill cutter tooling. I'm partial to solid carbide as it cuts well in any material and won't dull if run dry unlike HSS. If the cost is too high then HSS end mills are fine. Buy name brand if you have the $$.
I also suggest buying some roughing end mills These are great for fast chatter free metal removing when you need to remove a lot of material. You rough out the part then finish with a regular end mill.

That will get you started. There are lots of other accessories but I assume your not Bill Gates so spending more on tooling than the mill cost now will be out of the question.

Best of luck, it is a fun hobby.

Definitely right about the Bill Gates thing although I do expect to spend the cost of the mill + on tooling over the next year or so. Thanks so much for your comments, that's exactly the kind of advice/comments I'm looking for. Is there a reason you went with collets/drill chuck/vise other than what Matt at PM sells? AND, thoughts on the Z & Y axis drives - glad you spent $ on them or could you have added them later?
Alex

 

[mksj]

Are you planning on getting an 835 or 935, might edit the title if the latter.

I also have Align drives on my X and Z axis, very nicely built and they have been trouble free. They have very good speed control all the way down to zip, so recommended. On the Glacern R8-DC500 keyless drill chuck, I have one that the shank broke and had a few other problems, I would recommend the the Llambrich. I have two of their chucks both with integrated R8 shanks, never had an issue with it over tightening and they are very smooth. You also need a keyed chuck for those few time where you are power tapping/need to reverse the chuck. You may consider some form of power draw bar, a few people of made their own. I am using the Maxi Torque Rite Air Power Draw Bar which works great. Use to use my ER collets more, but less so now that I have with the power draw bar. Easson 12B DRO, good bang for the buck, get a battery operated DRO for spindle depth.

As others have mentioned, a good vise is critical to accurate milling. I have used a 6" through the years on both bench top and knee, just more accessories that fit and always need wider clamping. At some point I may get a second vise to hold longer stock, similar to David Best's setup. Kurt DX6 would be my first choice, Glacern vises are also highly rated, just avoid scrimping on the vise. Good tooling, parallels in different thicknesses, end mills (3 flute for aluminum and softer materials, 4-5 flute for steel/alloys), 1/2 and 3/4" rougher (brands to consider Minicut, Niagara, Melin, Hanita/Widia, Garr, etc.), decent set of R8 collets (vertex, Lyndex), 0.0001" dial and test indicators for alignment/set-up, good drill sets (stuby, number/letter, metric, etc.), shell mills (like a 3" Glacern FM45, FM90 and get separate arbor shell mill types, two sets of nserts), boring head (2 or 3") along with cutters, annular cutters for cutting holes (these can fit in a 3/4" R8 collet), a few other items.....

 

[Kamloopsendo]

Are you planning on getting an 835 or 935, might edit the title if the latter.

I also have Align drives on my X and Z axis, very nicely built and they have been trouble free. They have very good speed control all the way down to zip, so recommended. On the Glacern R8-DC500 keyless drill chuck, I have one that the shank broke and had a few other problems, I would recommend the the Llambrich. I have two of their chucks both with integrated R8 shanks, never had an issue with it over tightening and they are very smooth. You also need a keyed chuck for those few time where you are power tapping/need to reverse the chuck. You may consider some form of power draw bar, a few people of made their own. I am using the Maxi Torque Rite Air Power Draw Bar which works great. Use to use my ER collets more, but less so now that I have with the power draw bar. Easson 12B DRO, good bang for the buck, get a battery operated DRO for spindle depth.

As others have mentioned, a good vise is critical to accurate milling. I have used a 6" through the years on both bench top and knee, just more accessories that fit and always need wider clamping. At some point I may get a second vise to hold longer stock, similar to David Best's setup. Kurt DX6 would be my first choice, Glacern vises are also highly rated, just avoid scrimping on the vise. Good tooling, parallels in different thicknesses, end mills (3 flute for aluminum and softer materials, 4-5 flute for steel/alloys), 1/2 and 3/4" rougher (brands to consider Minicut, Niagara, Melin, Hanita/Widia, Garr, etc.), decent set of R8 collets (vertex, Lyndex), 0.0001" dial and test indicators for alignment/set-up, good drill sets (stuby, number/letter, metric, etc.), shell mills (like a 3" Glacern FM45, FM90 and get separate arbor shell mill types, two sets of nserts), boring head (2 or 3") along with cutters, annular cutters for cutting holes (these can fit in a 3/4" R8 collet), a few other items.....

Are you planning on getting an 835 or 935, might edit the title if the latter.

I also have Align drives on my X and Z axis, very nicely built and they have been trouble free. They have very good speed control all the way down to zip, so recommended. On the Glacern R8-DC500 keyless drill chuck, I have one that the shank broke and had a few other problems, I would recommend the the Llambrich. I have two of their chucks both with integrated R8 shanks, never had an issue with it over tightening and they are very smooth. You also need a keyed chuck for those few time where you are power tapping/need to reverse the chuck. You may consider some form of power draw bar, a few people of made their own. I am using the Maxi Torque Rite Air Power Draw Bar which works great. Use to use my ER collets more, but less so now that I have with the power draw bar. Easson 12B DRO, good bang for the buck, get a battery operated DRO for spindle depth.

As others have mentioned, a good vise is critical to accurate milling. I have used a 6" through the years on both bench top and knee, just more accessories that fit and always need wider clamping. At some point I may get a second vise to hold longer stock, similar to David Best's setup. Kurt DX6 would be my first choice, Glacern vises are also highly rated, just avoid scrimping on the vise. Good tooling, parallels in different thicknesses, end mills (3 flute for aluminum and softer materials, 4-5 flute for steel/alloys), 1/2 and 3/4" rougher (brands to consider Minicut, Niagara, Melin, Hanita/Widia, Garr, etc.), decent set of R8 collets (vertex, Lyndex), 0.0001" dial and test indicators for alignment/set-up, good drill sets (stuby, number/letter, metric, etc.), shell mills (like a 3" Glacern FM45, FM90 and get separate arbor shell mill types, two sets of nserts), boring head (2 or 3") along with cutters, annular cutters for cutting holes (these can fit in a 3/4" R8 collet), a few other items.....

Indeed Mark I did mean 935 not 835, thanks for the catch - I've corrected it in the title. Thanks for taking the time to outline your thoughts, I'm was simply going to go with Matt's vise and drives and drill chucks but I'll have a look at the items you and David and Rich have listed and maybe look to spend a bit more but hopefully end up with a better result. No one has listed an index head as an item they'd want or a rotary table both of which I kind of thought would be high on the list.
Alex