How to True up the table/box?

[Bob Korves]

Bottom line I was glad I didn't just go with my first inclination and do a skim cut on the table when I first started using it.

Absolutely! With machine tools, our first guess at what is wrong with something is quite likely to be wrong. If we jump right on to "fixing" the problem we 'think' we found, we will very often be making matters worse. First, we must understand how the machine works, even the parts we cannot see. Then, we must think about all the things that could possibly be causing the problem. Many machines have been ruined by jumping into a repair before ALL the possible issues are understood and considered. "First, cause no harm."

 

[Superburban]

Once I got the shims on the ram sorted my most wear was retracted, with almost no wear fully extended. It's also really hard to lift the ram at the end of travel because weight and drag from the mechanism.

Great point. My first inclination, is that the most wear would be at the end of the stroke, but after reading your post, it really does make sense that the wear would be at the start. Glad you posted that.

 

[C-Bag]

Great point. My first inclination, is that the most wear would be at the end of the stroke, but after reading your post, it really does make sense that the wear would be at the start. Glad you posted that.

My job used to be to have to fix stuff I was not familiar with and had no manual for. And truth is the manual for the Atlas is minimal at best. So even though this shaper ran if I cleaned it up and I knew it had problems, from past experience I knew I didn't understand enough to go modifying something so permanently. Even though I was sure that's what was needed.

I really like the sacrificial plate idea Latinrascalrg1 came up with. Doing a couple of plates that were the maximum width and length of the envelope of what the shaper could do then checking it on the surface plate really demonstrated directly what was gong on. But interpreting it was a whole nuther ball o wax!

 

[Bob Korves]

Bottom line I was glad I didn't just go with my first inclination and do a skim cut on the table when I first started using it.

This is the kind of story that rebuilders, restorers, and new users of old equipment should read and understand before making quick and dirty "fixes" that only further degrade the machine. Thanks for sharing it!

When in doubt... doubt! Then do your homework, and study and think on it BEFORE tearing into it...

 

[C-Bag]

I feel like that was the main thing Connolly was stressing through the whole book. In mapping out everything it forces you to deeply understand what's going on. It's a luxury for me to have the time and to run the machine extensively without somebody standing over me looking at the time clock or needing it yesterday.

 

[mcostello]

Looks somehow familiar.

 

[ThinWoodsman]

Was checking the table on my Ammco after adjusting the ram gibs and found that the table was 0.007" lower on the front/outside than on the back/inside.

Removing and cleaning the top gibs, then re-assembling with the table jacked up on the support as much as it could go, got it down to 0.002" - not perfect but better. The top gibs are only half the story; the bottom gibs are probably as bad as these were, if not worse (and are the ones that control table movement). Probably have to remove the table to get those out, which looked to be too involved of a job for just-before-dinner.

I don't think the issue is wear, as mentioned above, so much as just sag - maybe a decade or two of storage with the vise and who knows what stacked on the table.

Kinda wondering how the OP's adjustment worked out. Did everything just need a good cleaning? Or was a repair necessary?

Also, open to ideas for indicator mounts, as I'll probaby fab one up. A lathe-toolpost indicator holder in the lantern doesn't work well because the clapper moves; today I stuck a Noga to the side of the toolslide, but it is somewhat unstable as the clapper box and slide are of slightly different widths. Thinking an indicol-style shaped to fit the clapper box instead of a bridgeport spindle. In the short term, probably just stick the Noga to the table and put the indicator against the bottom of the ram.

 

[C-Bag]

In the Rudy K vid he had a clamped setup a little like the indicol that clamped to the side of the cutter head. I thought about that but it turns out there is a nice big spot on the Atlas upper front of the cutter head where the mag base can mount as long as I'm careful as its convex shaped and make sure it's straight up and down with no wobble.

You certainly have gotten good results with the ram and the upper table gibs. The lower gibs would be the obvious next step. Does the Aamco knee lock when in use? The Atlas has 8 bolt total that need to be tight and locks the box. I would think with that big block of cast iron that is the body of the shaper sag would not be possible, but what do I know?

Just out of curiosity have your tried truing a block and then checking it on a surface plate? That's where I discovered all my problems. Like Bob pointed out, there are so many moving parts on a shaper it seems to me the final product work piece and independent measurements of the machine go hand in hand as who knows what they do to make it work.

 

[ThinWoodsman]

Does the Aamco knee lock when in use?

Yes, there is a lever to lock the knee by the knee gibs. That plus the support leg make it pretty stable, there's definitely no movement in the table.

I would think with that big block of cast iron that is the body of the shaper sag would not be possible, but what do I know?

Perhaps sag is too indelicate a word. The machine was not treated kindly, so it's possible that heavy stuff was stacked on top of it in storage, and that caused the gibs to loosen or warp over years. Not by much, of course - we're talking thousandths.

Just out of curiosity have your tried truing a block and then checking it on a surface plate?

Not yet. My first attempt at truing a block showed that the ram was lifting at the end of the stroke, so I set about doing a few dynamic fixes (shorter stroke, faster speed) before finally tackling the ram gibs. I was setting up to square some hacksawn metal today when I noticed the vise was off by 0.007, but really it was the table, and half an hour later I'm covered in oil - no wonder I never seem to get anything done in the shop

 

[C-Bag]

I know what you mean. I don't know how many times I've gone out to do something and very similar derailments have happened. Mostly trying to get all the bugs out of my old shaper. It will be interesting to see what you come up with because very often even if it's not the same kind of machine a similar problem and a discovered fix has been very helpful.

I've not gotten all the bugs out of mine but nonetheless it's been a very useful machine.