- Joined
- Jan 30, 2017
- Messages
- 261
I’m looking at purchasing a new lathe. I have narrowed it down to either a Kent or Victor 17x40. The specs are pretty much the same between them. Does anyone own or run either and could give me your opinion.
-
Welcome back Guest! Did you know you can mentor other members here at H-M? If not, please check out our Relaunch of Hobby Machinist Mentoring Program!
Kent vs Victor lathe
- Thread starter 3strucking
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2020
- Messages
- 1,738
I could be wrong ( it would be the first time in five minutes) but I believe the Victor is made in Spain and the Kent is from Taiwan.
I find both all over, but I " feel " the Victor to be of better quality and I believe the support for their products to be much better..
In industry the Kent is considered a throw away, mostly purchased for a job.
If you are buying new for strictly hobby use you probably won't notice much dfference.
I think I would look at the Leblond lathes out of Ohio.
But please share your "shopping" information.
"The above is my opinion based on my experience, your actual opinion might vary "
I find both all over, but I " feel " the Victor to be of better quality and I believe the support for their products to be much better..
In industry the Kent is considered a throw away, mostly purchased for a job.
If you are buying new for strictly hobby use you probably won't notice much dfference.
I think I would look at the Leblond lathes out of Ohio.
But please share your "shopping" information.
"The above is my opinion based on my experience, your actual opinion might vary "
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,810
This is like saying should I buy a Ford or Dodge 1/2T truck. Both distributors off several different versions of 1740 lathes, w/o being more specific and to indicate what use conditions and if you have 3 phase power/RPC it is hard to give an opinion, and/or alternatives. Many of these are available with inverter drives, usually the 5Hp models can be run on single phase, the larger 7.5 and 10 Hp models most likely not. If you do not have 3 phase power, than you would need to add in the cost of a 15/20Hp RPC, or a Phase Perfect solid state phase converter. Price wise, that adds another 2-3K to the costs. Cost of the VFD lathe versions is similar to the cost of an RPC or Phase Perfect.
I believe the economy versions of these lathes are form mainland China, the higher end models are Taiwanese manufactired.
www.kentusa.com
www.kentusa.com
victormachines.com
www.victormachines.com
www.victormachines.com
I am more partial to the Kent lathes, mostly because most of their higher end versions are made by Sunmaster lathes, which are very well made and fall into the light industrial range. Parts and service would be more available vs. some of the one off brand/one off imported model lathes that may disappear in a few years. I would also look at Vendor support.
The 5 and 7.5Hp versions are D1-6 chuck mounts, so a spindle bore in the 2.1-2.5" range, the 10Hp would be a D1-8 which gets you in the 3.1" range, cost of chucks and tooling also go up proportional to the size and Hp. My recommendation would be the Kent RML-1640T, RML-1660VT, ML-1740T, MLX-1740. The same models/lathe are sold by other distributors which may offer better pricing and/or support. I own a Sunmaster lathe, and have also worked with quite a few other people that have purchased them, they would be my first choice if buying new in this price range. I would recommend looking at the Acra 1640 TVS as well as the Precision Mathew's PM-1640TL (this is also available in a VFD model). If you go directly to Acra, the pricing is better, and also check PM/QMT. The VFD versions of these lathe all use a pressurized lubrication system, the stock do not. If you need a heavy duty version, then maybe the look at the Kent MXL-1740.
A few posting from the past.
www.hobby-machinist.com
www.hobby-machinist.com
www.hobby-machinist.com
www.hobby-machinist.com
www.hobby-machinist.com
I believe the economy versions of these lathes are form mainland China, the higher end models are Taiwanese manufactired.
Buy ML/X-1740T Manual Precision Lathes - Kent Industrial USA
7.5 HP (10 HP on MLX model) Spindle Motor, 12-Speeds 3.125” Spindle Through Hole Solid Full-Length Casting Base with Front Loading Chip Tray for Easier Cleaning Adjustable Over-load Feed Clutches Quick Reversal Feed from Apron Full-length Safety Foot Brake Spindle Jog Button Control...
www.kentusa.com
Buy KLS-1740(II) Manual Economy Lathes - Kent Industrial USA
6 HP main spindle motor 12 speeds, all geared headstock Hardened and ground gears and bedways Centralized lube system in headstock Cast iron machine bedways and base Removable chip pan for easy clean up Foot brake and T-Slot compound Inch/metric ruler on tailstock quill ISO 9001...
www.kentusa.com
1740T / 1760T / 1780T Lathe
victormachines.com
S1740E / S1760E / S1790E Lathe (3" Bore)
www.victormachines.com
1740E / 1760E / 1790E Lathe
www.victormachines.com
I am more partial to the Kent lathes, mostly because most of their higher end versions are made by Sunmaster lathes, which are very well made and fall into the light industrial range. Parts and service would be more available vs. some of the one off brand/one off imported model lathes that may disappear in a few years. I would also look at Vendor support.
The 5 and 7.5Hp versions are D1-6 chuck mounts, so a spindle bore in the 2.1-2.5" range, the 10Hp would be a D1-8 which gets you in the 3.1" range, cost of chucks and tooling also go up proportional to the size and Hp. My recommendation would be the Kent RML-1640T, RML-1660VT, ML-1740T, MLX-1740. The same models/lathe are sold by other distributors which may offer better pricing and/or support. I own a Sunmaster lathe, and have also worked with quite a few other people that have purchased them, they would be my first choice if buying new in this price range. I would recommend looking at the Acra 1640 TVS as well as the Precision Mathew's PM-1640TL (this is also available in a VFD model). If you go directly to Acra, the pricing is better, and also check PM/QMT. The VFD versions of these lathe all use a pressurized lubrication system, the stock do not. If you need a heavy duty version, then maybe the look at the Kent MXL-1740.
A few posting from the past.
Has anyone had the chance to compare these brands, Acra, Kent USA, Precision Matthews
I'm looking at getting a lathe and a mill. Looking at the Acra 1440TE, PM 1440TL and Kent RML1440. I have visited a tech school 2 weeks ago (4.5 hours one way) that had 4 used and 3 new ACRA 1440TE lathes in their shop. So I have actually got to see them. The tech school liked them so much they...
www.hobby-machinist.com
NEW ACRA 1640TE
The machine was ordered mid December of 2017 from ACRA Machinery. The machine took a few weeks to arrive from Taiwan and was shipped to the port of LA, then onto Ranch Cucamonga where ACRA is located. The machine was then delivered to my location via flatbed. The machine sustained a fair amount...
www.hobby-machinist.com
My ACRA 1440 TVS
My new ACRA lathe is home, now the job of getting it settled in, and cleaned up. It has been very tiring couple of days moving everything around, and cleaning up under things on wheels that never moved.
www.hobby-machinist.com
PM-1660TL
I will document the details of how I set up the PM-1660TL that I have backordered for 10 weeks or more. This will be my first 3 phase machine. I need to educate myself on how to power the machine from the 220V, 40A outlet which is located about 4 feet from the headstock. This 220V outlet is...
www.hobby-machinist.com
A Lathe Without Changing Gears for Threading
I was looking a little further and found the Sun Master ERL series. Anyone know if Sun Master has a US distributor? Or if there is a rebranded Sun Master ERL?
www.hobby-machinist.com
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2017
- Messages
- 261
Im looking at the Kent ML 1740T and the Victor 1740E. I will have to use a VFD or Phase Perfect to power them. I use VFD's to power my index mill and 13x30 lathe that I have now. I dont know much about VFD's since my machines were already wired when I purchased them. Would factory VFD be better than Phase Perfect? I looked at the Sunmaster FC 1640 but I need to find a dealer to get a quote. I want to make the right decision since this will be the last lathe I own. I found a nice looking Okuma but its not under power. I refuse to purchase a used lathe that I cant test run.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2017
- Messages
- 261
I forgot to mention that I also got a quote for a Kingston HJ 1100. Its a 17x40 machine but I have never ran one. The specs are good looking.
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2014
- Messages
- 4,810
My recommendation would be then the Acra or the Kent 1740 with a factory VFD, if you call Acra directly (Tom) you will probably get better pricing between the two. You would need to check with Kent as to a VFD version. The Acra VFD 7.5Hp model is listed as single or 3 phase, so if you do not need 3 phase to power other machines then the factory installed VFD is the way to go. Factory installed VFD's the machine and control system is designed for use with a VFD, when you add on one there are compromises, and at the end of the day the costs are about the same if you do it right. If you are unfamiliar with VFD's then you do not want to be doing an install on a lathe. I do quite a few VFD installs, and even with that, when I bought my mill I went with the factory installed VFD system. If the Kent is not available in a VFD version I would recommend going with the Phase Perfect 7.5HP 230V Digital Phase Converter, but if it is only for one machine, you would be much better off just getting a lathe with a factory installed VFD. Take a look at the above link to Aukai's 1440TVS that he recently purchased and maybe contact him to ask his thoughts.
www.kentusa.com
www.phaseperfect.com
Buy ML/X-1740T Manual Precision Lathes - Kent Industrial USA
7.5 HP (10 HP on MLX model) Spindle Motor, 12-Speeds 3.125” Spindle Through Hole Solid Full-Length Casting Base with Front Loading Chip Tray for Easier Cleaning Adjustable Over-load Feed Clutches Quick Reversal Feed from Apron Full-length Safety Foot Brake Spindle Jog Button Control...
www.kentusa.com
7.5HP 230V Digital Phase Converter - Phase Perfect® Enterprise
www.phaseperfect.com
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2017
- Messages
- 261
The Kingston does not have change gears. Its a belt drive. I wish I could find someone within reasonable distance that had one of the lathes I am intrested in.
- Joined
- Apr 10, 2021
- Messages
- 591
When you get into the 17" machines you are stepping into a machine with a wider bed and a little more stout. You either need a Mark Jacobs to convert the lathe to a vfd or buy one with the vfd installed. Keep in mind that the headstock gearing is probably very different on a factory vfd machine. There will be fewer gears due to the vfd speed range but you may or may not be giving up some low end HP depending on how the machine is spec'd. A phase perfect or good balanced RPC will run with conventional controls and not require major electrical changes. As Mark said, a powerful lathe is not a machine to plug into a vfd without significant modification.
If you go the conventional route, you might also want to consider a clutched lathe. It isn't as important when running off a vfd but very handy and i'd argue more safe, when running of PP or RPC on a powerful machine.
Almost all Taiwan or even Spanish manufactured machines are copies of older designs. I don't follow the market closely but I know the 1550 clutched machine is a copy of a Colchester Triumph 2000. I suspect the 17xx series may have some Colchester roots as well but maybe others will have details. The Victor lathe looks like a different machine than the Sunmaster ones so I'd want to know what design it is. All of the established old machines with history had strengths and weaknesses to their designs. Reading opinions on the original versions can give you information as to what to look out for and also allow you to ask if those flaws were corrected with the copies. While there will be design improvements, there will also be some cheapening of the product. Are all the gears ground and hardened or only certain headstock gears, are all gears spur or are the any helical ? All the beds are probably hardened but that doesn't mean they will wear the same and a few companies will spec a little different bed design. I think Lagun might still use a three V bed in the Turnmaster which I think is a Colchester copy.
At the end of the day, the differences may be less important than how well the details are executed but you need people who have knowledge of individual models which I do not.
Dave
If you go the conventional route, you might also want to consider a clutched lathe. It isn't as important when running off a vfd but very handy and i'd argue more safe, when running of PP or RPC on a powerful machine.
Almost all Taiwan or even Spanish manufactured machines are copies of older designs. I don't follow the market closely but I know the 1550 clutched machine is a copy of a Colchester Triumph 2000. I suspect the 17xx series may have some Colchester roots as well but maybe others will have details. The Victor lathe looks like a different machine than the Sunmaster ones so I'd want to know what design it is. All of the established old machines with history had strengths and weaknesses to their designs. Reading opinions on the original versions can give you information as to what to look out for and also allow you to ask if those flaws were corrected with the copies. While there will be design improvements, there will also be some cheapening of the product. Are all the gears ground and hardened or only certain headstock gears, are all gears spur or are the any helical ? All the beds are probably hardened but that doesn't mean they will wear the same and a few companies will spec a little different bed design. I think Lagun might still use a three V bed in the Turnmaster which I think is a Colchester copy.
At the end of the day, the differences may be less important than how well the details are executed but you need people who have knowledge of individual models which I do not.
Dave
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2017
- Messages
- 261
I figure that I wont wear out any of them in my lifetime. I will be stepping up from a 13x30 5hp machine that only weighs 2200 lbs. I would really like to find a nice YAM, Okuma, Mori Seki, Monarch, etc.. thats not worn out. I just dont have the time to drive all over the country looking at used machines.
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2016
- Messages
- 3,857
Since you won't be pushing you lathe hard every single day, I think you are safe primarily looking at features. Frankly you are looking at the lower end of industrial lathes, which will far exceed your needs.
Check all the threading ranges and the stoutness of the compound. My 15" LeBlond has a small compound, which makes it more flimsy.
Check all the tailstock features. In this class it is very handy to have a assist to move the tailstock. Believe it or not, you are better off with a MT4 tailstock than a MT5, as the barrel is far weaker with the mt5. Well, unless it is very large in diameter, I guess. My 1440 is MT3, and my friend's version (same lathe) is MT4. The mt4 version is far weaker, as they have the same barrel which makes the wall thickness very flimsy.
On last thing is that unless you love the adventure of using change gears, choose the one with the ultramodern QCGB. These do not use any change gears at all. and are far more convienent.
In this price range you can also find 16" lathes with electronic lead screw installed. just a thought.
Check all the threading ranges and the stoutness of the compound. My 15" LeBlond has a small compound, which makes it more flimsy.
Check all the tailstock features. In this class it is very handy to have a assist to move the tailstock. Believe it or not, you are better off with a MT4 tailstock than a MT5, as the barrel is far weaker with the mt5. Well, unless it is very large in diameter, I guess. My 1440 is MT3, and my friend's version (same lathe) is MT4. The mt4 version is far weaker, as they have the same barrel which makes the wall thickness very flimsy.
On last thing is that unless you love the adventure of using change gears, choose the one with the ultramodern QCGB. These do not use any change gears at all. and are far more convienent.
In this price range you can also find 16" lathes with electronic lead screw installed. just a thought.