Making a couple of threaded spindle backing plates for my lathe

pdentrem

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When I sold my Atlas 10F24, I held on to my Bison 5” 3J, as it was fairly new. Naturally I needed to make a new backing plate to mount it onto the new lathe. The old plate was 1 1/2” X 8 while the new spindle is 2 1/4” X 8, so I needed new metal to do this. I recently purchased 2 backing plates from Busy Bee Tools. They are 8” semi raw castings. They are turned to clean off the rough cast surface and the center hole is 1” ID unthreaded.

First I started by reading up on what could be the rights and wrongs in making these backing plates. Recent posting here by various people, too many to list, have been of excellent help.

I make a copy of my spindle, so that I had a plug to try the threads as they neared finish size. I used the 3 wire method to make the plug match the spindle. Once the readings were the same between the two, I was finished. I did stamp the diameter and tpi for future reference.

I am making two backing plates. One for the above Bison chuck and the second for a 5C collet chuck. It was a local purchased, used but still excellent condition. CDCO supplied said the seller.

The first back plate, I chucked in my 4J, centered it and bored the spindle hole, threaded with the tool cutting on the back instead of the front side. This is so I could see what was going on. With a 2” hole this is easy to do. Faced the registration surface where the plate butts against the spindle shoulder, cut the plate back face and the shoulder OD to remove any run out. Mounted the new plate onto the spindle, cut the shoulder that fits into the back of the Bison chuck.

At this point I still had a 8” diameter plate. I needed to turn it down to slightly under 5”. I used a tool from work that is used to cut face o-ring grooves and can be used to part off the un-needed disk of material from a disk, as my plate had. Once this was done, I finished the OD and now needed to drill the mounting holes.

I did some measuring to find the center of the holes in the original plate from the Atlas and made a life size printout of the 6 holes arrayed around the shoulder that the chuck will mount to. With some careful cutting I fitted the paper to the new plate and transferred the hole positions and drill 3 holes for 1/4” X 20 thread and the alternating holes for unthreaded holes for the mounting bolts.

On the second plate I changed my method a bit. I mounted the plate first to my 4J chuck using the shoulder area and removed the outer disk first. Then I mounted it onto my 6” 3J and then cut the threads faced the registration surface and cleaned up the shoulder and back face. Next I have to check the collet chuck to see if it has any run out and then proceed with making the shoulder and mounting holes to match it. I think I will use the method mentioned on the write up at the cnccookbook.com website. I will let you know how that goes in the future.
Pierre

100 spindle-plug.jpg 101 cutting-the-extra-off.jpg 102 disk of-iron-off.jpg 103 disk-of-iron-removed.jpg 104 setup-for-thread-cutting.jpg 105 finished-threads-and-recess.jpg 106 finished-plate-ready-to-drill-holes.jpg 107 mounting-face-and-shoulder.jpg 108 old-plate.jpg 109 need-to-make-holes.jpg 110 paper-pattern-for-holes.jpg 111 mounting-plate-with-holes-mounted-to-chuck.jpg 112 mounted.jpg
 
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JimSchroeder

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Strange that I should stumble across this post at this time, I am making two backing plates for two new chucks. I took advantage of Enco's 20% and ordered a 4J independent Bison 6" and I also picked up a new Gibraltar 3J 6" for a good price. I bought the semi finished Bison back plate and am just about through machining it. For the Gibraltar I bought a piece of hot rolled 1018. Any thought on why lathe back plates are usually made from cast iron? I thought I would try making one from steel, cast iron is such a mess to machine.

Jim
 

pdentrem

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Steel tends to ring more than iron. Iron has a better dampening effect on vibrations. When i was parting off the unneeded disks, the first one did not sing but the second one did. You bet that iron is dirty! I will be spending some time today with the vacuum cleaner!
Pierre
 

pdentrem

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Well I cleaned up the lathe and area and installed the chuck on the spindle to check the runout. I have a 3/4" ground shaft that is straight and the runout is less than .001" on my DI. So I am happy!
Pierre

bison-on-lathe.jpg
 

benmychree

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The best reason to use cast iron for lathe chuck back plates is that it does not tend to gall like steel; make one of steel, and sometime likely the threads will gall, and mess up the spindle. I have made many of these, mostly for larger lathes, and I always make a plug gage to try the threads, but I do not make it like a copy of the spindle with steps and recesses, I have made them all just like commercial thread plug gages, with the threaded portion longer than what I will be gaging, and with a knurled handle smaller than the threaded portion so that it may be easily threaded to full depth. For finding the centers of the mounting (tapped) holes, I use transfer screws, that when the plate is struck with a hammer in assembly with the chuck, the hole centers are marked on the backplate; these can be homemade, using an alloy steel heat treated bolt, cutting it into short sections and turning a sharp teat on one end; to install and remove them a saw cut slit can be made with a hacksaw just adjacent to the teat.
 

rowbare

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Do you remember the part number for the backing plates you got from Busy Bee?

bob
 

pdentrem

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Do you remember the part number for the backing plates you got from Busy Bee?

bob
The plates are B056. They were on clearance when I bought them a couple months ago. Likely have to call the main office as they were not listed even at the time I got them. Good luck.
Pierre
 

pdentrem

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Here is the CDCO collet chuck that I bought used back in October, mounted onto the second plate. I still have to play with it and see how good or bad it really is.
Pierre

collet-chuck.jpg
 

Downunder Bob

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You could use a steel plate, as long a you take precautions against it galling, A light smear of a good anti seize compound should ensure that it never galls
 

Mellodabs

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When I sold my Atlas 10F24, I held on to my Bison 5” 3J, as it was fairly new. Naturally I needed to make a new backing plate to mount it onto the new lathe. The old plate was 1 1/2” X 8 while the new spindle is 2 1/4” X 8, so I needed new metal to do this. I recently purchased 2 backing plates from Busy Bee Tools. They are 8” semi raw castings. They are turned to clean off the rough cast surface and the center hole is 1” ID unthreaded.

First I started by reading up on what could be the rights and wrongs in making these backing plates. Recent posting here by various people, too many to list, have been of excellent help.

I make a copy of my spindle, so that I had a plug to try the threads as they neared finish size. I used the 3 wire method to make the plug match the spindle. Once the readings were the same between the two, I was finished. I did stamp the diameter and tpi for future reference.

I am making two backing plates. One for the above Bison chuck and the second for a 5C collet chuck. It was a local purchased, used but still excellent condition. CDCO supplied said the seller.

The first back plate, I chucked in my 4J, centered it and bored the spindle hole, threaded with the tool cutting on the back instead of the front side. This is so I could see what was going on. With a 2” hole this is easy to do. Faced the registration surface where the plate butts against the spindle shoulder, cut the plate back face and the shoulder OD to remove any run out. Mounted the new plate onto the spindle, cut the shoulder that fits into the back of the Bison chuck.

At this point I still had a 8” diameter plate. I needed to turn it down to slightly under 5”. I used a tool from work that is used to cut face o-ring grooves and can be used to part off the un-needed disk of material from a disk, as my plate had. Once this was done, I finished the OD and now needed to drill the mounting holes.

I did some measuring to find the center of the holes in the original plate from the Atlas and made a life size printout of the 6 holes arrayed around the shoulder that the chuck will mount to. With some careful cutting I fitted the paper to the new plate and transferred the hole positions and drill 3 holes for 1/4” X 20 thread and the alternating holes for unthreaded holes for the mounting bolts.

On the second plate I changed my method a bit. I mounted the plate first to my 4J chuck using the shoulder area and removed the outer disk first. Then I mounted it onto my 6” 3J and then cut the threads faced the registration surface and cleaned up the shoulder and back face. Next I have to check the collet chuck to see if it has any run out and then proceed with making the shoulder and mounting holes to match it. I think I will use the method mentioned on the write up at the cnccookbook.com website. I will let you know how that goes in the future.
Pierre

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Is there any way you can look at the pictures I put up of my atlas lathe (it's in parts) and tell me what model it is?
 

Jan the man

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Pierre, What are you going to do with the 10F24 backing plates. I just bought a 10F42 and will probably need 1 or 2 backing plates.
 

pdentrem

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I have the one in the pictures left. It is sitting in my junk steel box at the moment.
Pierre
 

ErnieH

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When I sold my Atlas 10F24, I held on to my Bison 5” 3J, as it was fairly new. Naturally I needed to make a new backing plate to mount it onto the new lathe. The old plate was 1 1/2” X 8 while the new spindle is 2 1/4” X 8, so I needed new metal to do this. I recently purchased 2 backing plates from Busy Bee Tools. They are 8” semi raw castings. They are turned to clean off the rough cast surface and the center hole is 1” ID unthreaded.

First I started by reading up on what could be the rights and wrongs in making these backing plates. Recent posting here by various people, too many to list, have been of excellent help.

I make a copy of my spindle, so that I had a plug to try the threads as they neared finish size. I used the 3 wire method to make the plug match the spindle. Once the readings were the same between the two, I was finished. I did stamp the diameter and tpi for future reference.

I am making two backing plates. One for the above Bison chuck and the second for a 5C collet chuck. It was a local purchased, used but still excellent condition. CDCO supplied said the seller.

The first back plate, I chucked in my 4J, centered it and bored the spindle hole, threaded with the tool cutting on the back instead of the front side. This is so I could see what was going on. With a 2” hole this is easy to do. Faced the registration surface where the plate butts against the spindle shoulder, cut the plate back face and the shoulder OD to remove any run out. Mounted the new plate onto the spindle, cut the shoulder that fits into the back of the Bison chuck.

At this point I still had a 8” diameter plate. I needed to turn it down to slightly under 5”. I used a tool from work that is used to cut face o-ring grooves and can be used to part off the un-needed disk of material from a disk, as my plate had. Once this was done, I finished the OD and now needed to drill the mounting holes.

I did some measuring to find the center of the holes in the original plate from the Atlas and made a life size printout of the 6 holes arrayed around the shoulder that the chuck will mount to. With some careful cutting I fitted the paper to the new plate and transferred the hole positions and drill 3 holes for 1/4” X 20 thread and the alternating holes for unthreaded holes for the mounting bolts.

On the second plate I changed my method a bit. I mounted the plate first to my 4J chuck using the shoulder area and removed the outer disk first. Then I mounted it onto my 6” 3J and then cut the threads faced the registration surface and cleaned up the shoulder and back face. Next I have to check the collet chuck to see if it has any run out and then proceed with making the shoulder and mounting holes to match it. I think I will use the method mentioned on the write up at the cnccookbook.com website. I will let you know how that goes in the future.
Pierre

View attachment 66791 View attachment 66792 View attachment 66793 View attachment 66794 View attachment 66795 View attachment 66796 View attachment 66797 View attachment 66798 View attachment 66799 View attachment 66800 View attachment 66801 View attachment 66802 View attachment 66803
 

springer

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I have an old backing plate for a set true chuck, I think it is 2-1/4x8 if anyone needs one
 

Surprman

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I don’t have a need to build a backing plate but just happened review your photos and had an interesting realization. Your boring bar looked weird. While I knew that thread cutting only utilizes the leading edge of the cutter, I never thought that you could simply focus on ensuring only that edge is good (leaving the back edge missing). I will be working on a small diameter single point boring activity and that concept will come in handy I think!

thanks!

Rick
 

pdentrem

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Yes there are many ways to skin a cat. I made sure the tip radius was correct and the leading edge. Since I was only feeding in with the top slide the back edge was not required in this case. Just have to be sure that the angles are spot on.
Pierre
 
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