Making a Steel Base & Stand for Sherline 4410 Lathe

[Aaron_W]

I don't remember hearing about the Sears Sherline lathe before, interesting, I'll search for that too. The local Sears store closed here about 4 or 5 years ago, I was depressed for months, had to seek help (I'm a big Craftsman fan, fan of any good tool really).

Sears sold the Sherline lathe and mill for a few years in the 80s to replace the Unimat lathes which Sears sold in the 70s.

Ad from the 1981 Sears / Craftsman catalog





Interesting stand you are making. I've considered making a base from aluminum plate, but the current plywood base has been adequate for my needs and really puts making a better base a low priority.

 

[PhilJustLearning]

Don't the legs go the other way around? Seems it would be more stable if they were.

View attachment 444899

Hi @EricB

Interesting idea, I didn't think of that. The way it came is with the mid-span horizontal bar welded to each of the vertical leg sides. So the only way to assembly it is as shown.
I attached the Home Depot pic showing the wood lathe intended for this stand. Its hard to see, but the joints are welded. The adjustable part is in the middle of the mid-span horizontal bar.
If I remove the horizontal bar for a toolbox space then I can try flipping the leg feet inward just to see if it is more stable.
With the leg feet pointing inwards though that could interfere with a rollable toolbox unless I just weld the toolbox on top of the leg feet and sides which may be even better.

Thanks for the idea.
Phil

 

[DavidR8]

Hi @EricB

Interesting idea, I didn't think of that. The way it came is with the mid-span horizontal bar welded to each of the vertical leg sides. So the only way to assembly it is as shown.
I attached the Home Depot pic showing the wood lathe intended for this stand. Its hard to see, but the joints are welded. The adjustable part is in the middle of the mid-span horizontal bar.
If I remove the horizontal bar for a toolbox space then I can try flipping the leg feet inward just to see if it is more stable.
With the leg feet pointing inwards though that could interfere with a rollable toolbox unless I just weld the toolbox on top of the leg feet and sides which may be even better.

Thanks for the idea.
Phil

I used to have that stand for my midi wood lathe and the legs are absolutely designed to point outward. Otherwise there's no where to put your feet.

 

[PhilJustLearning]

Sears sold the Sherline lathe and mill for a few years in the 80s to replace the Unimat lathes which Sears sold in the 70s.

Ad from the 1981 Sears / Craftsman catalog

View attachment 444900



Interesting stand you are making. I've considered making a base from aluminum plate, but the current plywood base has been adequate for my needs and really puts making a better base a low priority.

Hi @Aaron_W
Cool, nice to see that old Sears Catalog add, can we still get it for $249.00? ha-ha
They had dial for adjustable variable speed way back then too, wow, the mini lathe users have been spoiled for many years now.
Totally understand the low priority if your setup works great, that frees up time to make other interesting projects...
Phil

 

[PhilJustLearning]

I used to have that stand for my midi wood lathe and the legs are absolutely designed to point outward. Otherwise there's no where to put your feet.

Hi @DavidR8,
Yes, that makes sense, thanks for pointing it out. Just goes to show how challenging it can be to make a new design that is functional and also ergonomical to use.
Phil

 

[mikey]

Phil, I think your plan is going to provide a really solid platform for your lathe. It will not do anything to prevent chatter; that is more a function of poor gib adjustment, poor tool geometry and improper feeds/speeds. You are going to find that the Sherline lathe is a very capable machine and the more experience you have, the better the machine becomes.

Personally, I have found a piece of Melamine-coated 3/4" thick plywood to be a more than adequate base for my lathe. It has remained stable, level and trouble-free for 40 years. I can put it on a shelf with one hand.

Insofar as leveling the lathe goes, I have only leveled two Sherline 4400 lathes and neither required much in the way of shims. In fact, I only had to use a few layers of aluminum foil in one corner of both lathes. The Sherline is very simple to adjust and dial in but you do have to pay attention. Be sure to align the headstock with the ways first, then level the lathe.

 

[PhilJustLearning]

Phil, I think your plan is going to provide a really solid platform for your lathe. It will not do anything to prevent chatter; that is more a function of poor gib adjustment, poor tool geometry and improper feeds/speeds. You are going to find that the Sherline lathe is a very capable machine and the more experience you have, the better the machine becomes.

Personally, I have found a piece of Melamine-coated 3/4" thick plywood to be a more than adequate base for my lathe. It has remained stable, level and trouble-free for 40 years. I can put it on a shelf with one hand.

Insofar as leveling the lathe goes, I have only leveled two Sherline 4400 lathes and neither required much in the way of shims. In fact, I only had to use a few layers of aluminum foil in one corner of both lathes. The Sherline is very simple to adjust and dial in but you do have to pay attention. Be sure to align the headstock with the ways first, then level the lathe.

Hi mikey
Thanks for your input. I've seen alot mentioned in manuals and videos on the gib adjustment, I need to get more experienced on that to be honest.
I'll be sure to do the headstock with the ways first, and then the lathe lengthwise and also check for twist in the bed.
I plan on using steel feeler gauges for shims, I hope they work well.
Phil

 

[mikey]

Hi mikey
Thanks for your input. I've seen alot mentioned in manuals and videos on the gib adjustment, I need to get more experienced on that to be honest.
I'll be sure to do the headstock with the ways first, and then the lathe lengthwise and also check for twist in the bed.
I plan on using steel feeler gauges for shims, I hope they work well.
Phil

Sherline uses an engineered plastic for their gibs that lasts for decades with little or no wear. They lock the gib in place with an L-shaped pin on one end; this pin is held in place by a single set screw. As elementary as this system may seem, Sherline gibs adjust easily and stay adjusted for decades without needing attention. All you need to do is to lube the dovetail surrounding the gib at the time of adjustment and periodically thereafter, like every few years or so. I know of no other gib system that is as effective as this one is.

To set/adjust the gib wherever they are found on a Sherline machine, loosen the set screw that holds the L-shaped pin so that the gib is free to move. Pull the gib out and CLEAN the dovetail in which it runs and clean the gib itself. Then oil the dovetail and gib with hydraulic fluid or oil of your preference (I use SuperLube synthetic oil). Insert the gib and push it in until it stops naturally, then move/rock the structure you're adjusting while pushing or pulling the gib so that there is zero play in the structure. Turn the handwheel that controls the movement of that structure so that there is free movement of the wheel but no notable play in the structure. Now lock the gib in place by locking the set screw for the L-shaped pin and you're done. That's all there is to adjusting a Sherline gib and it will stay that way for years. Everything should move smoothly but there should be no play or slack anywhere. My lathe and mill are as smooth and tight as they were 40 years ago and I can cut into the tenths on my lathe. Moreover, I have not had to replace any of the gibs on my machines, ever.

When leveling your lathe, remember that the so-called "ways" is a single piece of machined 12L14 steel stock with a 55 degree dovetail cut into the sides. When we level this lathe we are actually twisting/untwisting a solid piece of steel. Typically, there is very little twist in the bed to begin with and, therefore, very little to take out. Your call on the shim stock but I think using feeler gauge material is overkill and a waste of money. It would be better spent on a decent machinist's level, a Starrett 98-6 at minimum.

Be sure to align the headstock with the ways by chucking up a piece of 12L14 mild steel in a 3 jaw chuck, leaving about 3-4" sticking out. Using a properly ground and very sharp HSS turning tool, take off 0.010" from the end and cut towards the chuck. Repeat this twice, taking0.003" and then 0.001" deep cuts for the two passes. Using a micrometer, measure the OD on the end, middle and near the chuck; each should read exactly the same. If they are not the same, make an adjustment of the headstock and do it again until you get zero deviation down the entire rod. This is not a "tolerance thing". Get it to ZERO.

Anytime you do test cuts on this lathe (or any lathe), you should only use a properly ground and very sharp HSS turning tool. Such a tool will cut with the minimal amount of deflection and the results can be relied upon. Do not do cutting tests with inserted carbide tools of any kind. I don't trust brazed carbide tools, either. If you cannot grind a good HSS tool yourself then I highly recommend you send a PM to either @Z2V or @ttabbal and have them grind a "square tool" for you. Both can grind good tools for a very good price.

I highly recommend that you place your level on the cross slide when leveling the lathe. Align the edge of the level with the edge of the cross slide and leave it there for all subsequent operations. You will typically find one corner of the lathe will be off. One of the reasons I prefer plywood as a base is because it it usually flat and adjusting one corner of the lathe on a flat surface is simple. Of course, your results may vary so you'll have to see but simple aluminum foil works and lasts for decades without changing, just so you know.

Once you level the lathe as well as you can with a level, you will finalize the leveling with a 2-collar test, It is important to use a good HSS tool for this test because you are cutting on a 6-8" long piece of aluminum stock supported only on one end so deviation from radial forces generated by your turning tool must be kept to a minimum. You need a good HSS for this.

Hope this helps. A Sherline lathe is a precision lathe that is capable of great accuracy if it is set up properly. Many of us, myself included, own larger lathes but prefer to work on the Sherline when the part size allows because of the ease of using the lathe and it's accuracy. I hope you enjoy as many years from yours as I have had from mine.

 

[PhilJustLearning]

Sherline uses an engineered plastic for their gibs that lasts for decades with little or no wear. They lock the gib in place with an L-shaped pin on one end; this pin is held in place by a single set screw. As elementary as this system may seem, Sherline gibs adjust easily and stay adjusted for decades without needing attention. All you need to do is to lube the dovetail surrounding the gib at the time of adjustment and periodically thereafter, like every few years or so. I know of no other gib system that is as effective as this one is.

To set/adjust the gib wherever they are found on a Sherline machine, loosen the set screw that holds the L-shaped pin so that the gib is free to move. Pull the gib out and CLEAN the dovetail in which it runs and clean the gib itself. Then oil the dovetail and gib with hydraulic fluid or oil of your preference (I use SuperLube synthetic oil). Insert the gib and push it in until it stops naturally, then move/rock the structure you're adjusting while pushing or pulling the gib so that there is zero play in the structure. Turn the handwheel that controls the movement of that structure so that there is free movement of the wheel but no notable play in the structure. Now lock the gib in place by locking the set screw for the L-shaped pin and you're done. That's all there is to adjusting a Sherline gib and it will stay that way for years. Everything should move smoothly but there should be no play or slack anywhere. My lathe and mill are as smooth and tight as they were 40 years ago and I can cut into the tenths on my lathe. Moreover, I have not had to replace any of the gibs on my machines, ever.

When leveling your lathe, remember that the so-called "ways" is a single piece of machined 12L14 steel stock with a 55 degree dovetail cut into the sides. When we level this lathe we are actually twisting/untwisting a solid piece of steel. Typically, there is very little twist in the bed to begin with and, therefore, very little to take out. Your call on the shim stock but I think using feeler gauge material is overkill and a waste of money. It would be better spent on a decent machinist's level, a Starrett 98-6 at minimum.

Be sure to align the headstock with the ways by chucking up a piece of 12L14 mild steel in a 3 jaw chuck, leaving about 3-4" sticking out. Using a properly ground and very sharp HSS turning tool, take off 0.010" from the end and cut towards the chuck. Repeat this twice, taking0.003" and then 0.001" deep cuts for the two passes. Using a micrometer, measure the OD on the end, middle and near the chuck; each should read exactly the same. If they are not the same, make an adjustment of the headstock and do it again until you get zero deviation down the entire rod. This is not a "tolerance thing". Get it to ZERO.

Anytime you do test cuts on this lathe (or any lathe), you should only use a properly ground and very sharp HSS turning tool. Such a tool will cut with the minimal amount of deflection and the results can be relied upon. Do not do cutting tests with inserted carbide tools of any kind. I don't trust brazed carbide tools, either. If you cannot grind a good HSS tool yourself then I highly recommend you send a PM to either @Z2V or @ttabbal and have them grind a "square tool" for you. Both can grind good tools for a very good price.

I highly recommend that you place your level on the cross slide when leveling the lathe. Align the edge of the level with the edge of the cross slide and leave it there for all subsequent operations. You will typically find one corner of the lathe will be off. One of the reasons I prefer plywood as a base is because it it usually flat and adjusting one corner of the lathe on a flat surface is simple. Of course, your results may vary so you'll have to see but simple aluminum foil works and lasts for decades without changing, just so you know.

Once you level the lathe as well as you can with a level, you will finalize the leveling with a 2-collar test, It is important to use a good HSS tool for this test because you are cutting on a 6-8" long piece of aluminum stock supported only on one end so deviation from radial forces generated by your turning tool must be kept to a minimum. You need a good HSS for this.

Hope this helps. A Sherline lathe is a precision lathe that is capable of great accuracy if it is set up properly. Many of us, myself included, own larger lathes but prefer to work on the Sherline when the part size allows because of the ease of using the lathe and it's accuracy. I hope you enjoy as many years from yours as I have had from mine.

Hi mikey,
Wow, thanks for all the details and taking the time to write it up, I really appreciate it! I had so many blank spots and that fills in the details.

I did get a Starrett 98-6 a few weeks back since it was suggested to use a machinist level and not a more common one (that I probably dropped more than once). I'll just use the aluminum foil as you did and save the life of a feeler gauge; I did read that feeler gauge tip somewhere, thought it was a pretty cool idea, just checked the price on amazon and for 32 blades they are about $7 to $10 USD. Money still better spent elsewhere, small pieces of aluminum foil are almost free!
I bought an 8 piece pre-ground Grizzly HSS turning tool set and will keep in mind those contacts for more until I get skilled enough at grinding them myself.
So I gather the idea behind the HSS vs the carbide tools for cutting tests is that they won't deflect the stock as much. Does that mean the cutting edge of carbide tools or inserts are usually designed to be more aggressive during turning and therefore tend to cut deeper which can deflect the stock more vs the HSS?
What about zirconium carbide cutting tools (not inserts), Wikipedia mentions this type of carbide is extremely hard so wouldn't need to be sharpened as often? Maybe nobody makes lathe tools with that material.
Phil

 

[mikey]

Hi mikey,
Wow, thanks for all the details and taking the time to write it up, I really appreciate it! I had so many blank spots and that fills in the details.

I did get a Starrett 98-6 a few weeks back since it was suggested to use a machinist level and not a more common one (that I probably dropped more than once). I'll just use the aluminum foil as you did and save the life of a feeler gauge; I did read that feeler gauge tip somewhere, thought it was a pretty cool idea, just checked the price on amazon and for 32 blades they are about $7 to $10 USD. Money still better spent elsewhere, small pieces of aluminum foil are almost free!
I bought an 8 piece pre-ground Grizzly HSS turning tool set and will keep in mind those contacts for more until I get skilled enough at grinding them myself.
So I gather the idea behind the HSS vs the carbide tools for cutting tests is that they won't deflect the stock as much. Does that mean the cutting edge of carbide tools or inserts are usually designed to be more aggressive during turning and therefore tend to cut deeper which can deflect the stock more vs the HSS?
What about zirconium carbide cutting tools (not inserts), Wikipedia mentions this type of carbide is extremely hard so wouldn't need to be sharpened as often? Maybe nobody makes lathe tools with that material.
Phil

The Starrett 98-6 is adequate for the Sherline lathe. It is NOT adequate for larger lathes but for our small guys, yeah, it will work. I think this because of the solid bed; not much movement will occur.

The feeler gauge idea is a good one but an even better one for use on larger lathes is to have adjustable feet under the chassis of the lathe and under the bottom of the lathe stand. You will use both to dial in the level of the lathe and it will be much faster and more precise than messing with the leaves of a feeler gauge set. For our Sherline, foil is more than adequate.

It is important to understand that not all HSS tools are created equal. Just because the tool is made from HSS does not mean it will perform as well as one ground by someone who actually knows what he is grinding. I have yet to see a pre-ground commercial set that will outperform one made by either of the guys I recommended. I would strongly suggest you have one ground for you and run comparison tests with Grizzly tools to see what I mean.

Inserted carbide tools are not suitable for cutting tests. Their nose radii and edges deflect too much. This has to do with the cutting forces they generate. If you want to learn more about why HSS is a better choice for a Sherline user, go here and read. A Sherline lathe can use inserted cabide tools because it can go fast enough when turning larger diameters. However, the motor has only 0.08 HP so you won't be taking big cuts. In contrast, a good HSS tool will vastly outperform caribide on a Sherline lathe; it isn't even close. A good HSS tool will cut deeper than carbide, will be far more accurate and will produce a superior finish vs carbide. The only time you need carbide is when turning hard materials.

If I were you, Phil, I would make learning to grind a good HSS tool a priority. Good tools will allow your Sherline to reach it's full potential.

I have never used Zirconium ceramic tools on either of my lathes and have no practical opinion.