Mill is 3-phase 440v, I have 1-phase 220v - What kind of options do I have?

White wrapped wire goes to neutral, not to ground or earth which are the same thing and where the green wire is going.

So based on this you need to pull one more large black wire of the same guage as the others through the conduit and tape it blue at both ends.

Now, is the unused three pole breaker that was tagged as "garage" 100 amp as well? If so run all three wires to that one, otherwise replace it with a 100 Amp breaker and use that.

So that gets you 3 phase to the garage.

Next step is to determine if the panel in the garage is a three phase panel or just a single phase panel. If three phase, add the new blue wire and you are set, otherwise, you will need to replace the panel.

Basicly Ron, you have been stewing over something you already had.

Walter
 
Ron,

Shoot us a picture or two of the shop panel. That will tell us the most. It's possible someone used a 3-phase panel and fed two buses with the same leg, just to power it up. Then a 2-pole breaker connected to those two buses would give the results you measured. That would actually be good news. Like Walter said, you would then just have to add one more wire for the blue phase.

If you're pulling a new wire in with existing ones, make up a plastic 'bullet' with a slot in the tail end to tape onto the fishtape before pushing it through. It's way too easy for the end of the tape to weave back and forth between the other wires, making it tough to pull in the new one. The bullet will take the easiest path, hopefully avoiding small gaps between the wires.

Worst-case scenario - pull out the wires and pull them in again with the new one added.
 
starlight_tools said:
White wrapped wire goes to neutral, not to ground or earth which are the same thing and where the green wire is going.

So based on this you need to pull one more large black wire of the same guage as the others through the conduit and tape it blue at both ends.

Now, is the unused three pole breaker that was tagged as "garage" 100 amp as well? If so run all three wires to that one, otherwise replace it with a 100 Amp breaker and use that.

So that gets you 3 phase to the garage.

Next step is to determine if the panel in the garage is a three phase panel or just a single phase panel. If three phase, add the new blue wire and you are set, otherwise, you will need to replace the panel.

Basicly Ron, you have been stewing over something you already had.

Walter
Click to expand...

Oddly enough the 3-phase breaker that was tagged "garage" was only a 40a. No idea what someone had in mind when they did that, maybe just marked it wrong.

Basicly Ron, you have been stewing over something you already had.
Click to expand...

You can say that again! :eek: :phew: :biggrin:


Hawkeye said:
Ron,

Shoot us a picture or two of the shop panel. That will tell us the most. It's possible someone used a 3-phase panel and fed two buses with the same leg, just to power it up. Then a 2-pole breaker connected to those two buses would give the results you measured. That would actually be good news. Like Walter said, you would then just have to add one more wire for the blue phase.

If you're pulling a new wire in with existing ones, make up a plastic 'bullet' with a slot in the tail end to tape onto the fishtape before pushing it through. It's way too easy for the end of the tape to weave back and forth between the other wires, making it tough to pull in the new one. The bullet will take the easiest path, hopefully avoiding small gaps between the wires.

Worst-case scenario - pull out the wires and pull them in again with the new one added.
Click to expand...

I'll pull the "shop" panel tomorrow and see what's going on out there. That one is a bit of a p.i.t.a. Since we are discussing "fish tapes", are there any preferences? Steel or fiberglass? Greenlee or Ideal? I'd have to look at the plans again but the total distance I have to go is about 120' or so.

Thanks guys, you've been a great help. If nothing else I provide entertainment for the masses! :biggrin:

-Ron
 
For long conduits, we always use steel fishtapes. Maybe because glass tapes cost more. I have both Greenlee and Ideal. Make sure the breaker is off when you are working with the conduit. Dry cardboard can be used for extra protection in the supply panel. Steel fishtapes can get really dramatic when they stray.
 
Glass/Nylon tapes are typically more expensive, but they do offer a little insulation when pulling in already filled conduits. Also, they seem to me to be a little slicker. I have both, but the Nylon seems to see more use on short pulls. If you think it's possible to need another pull in the conduit, leave a pull string behind. Easier than pushing a fish tape, and less likely to damage in place wires.

+1 on breaker off.....that 'lectricity stuff can kill ya. We don't have enough members to spare one.
 
If I had my druthers I'd kill the whole panel and not just the one breaker. That's not going to happen though, folks in the office get kind of "testy" when the lights/air conditioning and computers go down. :p

I've got "pull strings" in all my conduit between floors in the building, makes it so much easier for installing communications lines when I have a new tenant. I don't think anyone considered the possibility of some nut case trying pull an extra 4 gauge (guessing here, haven't sized it yet) wire out to the garage. This should be an "interesting" little operation. Maybe I should sell tickets... :biggrin:

I'm betting that the panel in the "shop"/garage is single phase so I'll see if I can price out a new box when I'm picking up the "fish tape".

Thanks guys, I'll keep your advice in mind when I go and get stuff/start doing the work.

I'll certainly post my results, at least the lesser embarrassing stuff. :rolleyes::biggrin:

-Ron
 
Ron

42 beat me too it!

I always pull an extra string into my conduits, that way I have a way to pull another line if necessary, And if that string ever gets used, then another is pulled through at the same time.

+1 on killing the panel, just do it after hours when the offices are shut down.

Walter
 
It will be easy enough to tell if you already have a 3-phase panel. It will have 3 main lugs toward the centre of the panel, plus the neutral and ground connections, similar to your supply panel. A single-phase panel will have only two main lugs. A jumper between two of three lugs is a feeble attempt to use a 3-phase panel, but in this case, it would be good news for you - no new panel to buy.

Another thing to check is whether the conductors to the shop panel are copper or aluminum. Aluminum will be a size bigger than copper ones for the same current and will need special consideration when connecting.
 
Time for an update so you guys don't start thinking I electrocuted myself. :p :biggrin: The last couple of days have been a little "off" in that my "spare" time was taken up by other happenings (bought wife a new truck, drove up to get son from Boy Scout camp, etc.)

I picked up an "Ideal" 250' metal "fish tape" at the local Lowe's along with some Yellow grease ("pulling" lubricant) and some blue electrical tape. The only reason I went with the metal tape is that was the only thing they had long enough. :rolleyes: I would have had to wait until Monday to go to a real electrician's supply but want to get this done over the weekend.

I get both panels pulled (the "shop" panel is single phase btw, need to get a new one) and lube up the nose of the tape. The whole operation starts pretty good and I made real good time with the tape. It's surprising just how well it does work if used properly.

When I get to about the 160' mark, the tape will go no further. I head out to the "shop"/garage to see what is going on and find that the tape has yet to appear. I am pretty sure that it is stuck on the 90 degree elbow under the concrete and there is some funky tubing connection and curves going on at floor level so that would be no surprise. After I used up all my choice words I called it a day and left things as just described. Tomorrow I'll be making some kind of "hook" thing so I can try and fish the end of the "fish tape" out from the "shop" end.

I'll let you know tomorrow how things go. I need to pick up some 180' of #3 awg wire (now that I know the full distance, cripes that stuff is expensive). Hopefully I will actually get to try and pull some wire through.

-Ron
 
Man you are one lucky dog, all this time your worried about what 3 phase gadget to use and it's right there already.

Try a strong magnet (rare earth type) tied to a string to get that fish tape out. Might work. Good luck
 
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