Mill with rotary table vs 3-in-1

With 3-in-1 machines, you spend most of your effort/time/money accommodating the limitations of the machine rather than just making parts.
Improving/accommodating the machine can be a satisfying hobby in itself, if that floats your boat.
If you had a different hobby in mind, hold out for the best machines you can afford/house/tool.
Let me put it this way, 3-in-1 machines are not consistent with my understanding of the Swiss reputation/stereotype.
On the other hand, trying to make parts on a 3-in-1 will teach you MANY lessons and everybody's got to start somewhere.

EDIT: What you want to make is a major factor in choosing machines.
If you intend to work with relatively easy to machine materials (aluminum, brass, plastics) in small sizes (less than 1/4 of the machines dimensional capacity) a 3-in-1 might get you started (sort of).
What type of parts do you have in mind?
What Materials?
What sizes?
What tolerances?
 
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tweinke said:
In my opinion having started with a 3in1 machine, If you have time and patience the 3in1 will make parts that fit in its work envelope. I think the Smithy machines are probably the more refined of the 3in1 machines. I found it a bit of a pain to get parts to a height that was acceptable for milling at times. You will probably not be hogging material off with the mill like you see in some videos on the net but reasonable depth cuts work out pretty well. Quality of work will mostly depend on you and your setups. One thing you will learn quickly due to the combination mill/lathe is work order needs to be well thought out or you will spend a lot of time switching back and forth between lathe and mill. Can you make good parts with accuracy that also look good, yes you can. If I wouldn't have bought my Shoptask 1720xmtc used I never would have been able to start in this hobby so I will not put down 3in1 machines. Hopefully this helps you, just remember to get the biggest machine or machines you can fit in your budget and space. :encourage:
Click to expand...
I've had a 3 in 1 and found many limitations . I spent this and bought a grizly 8 x 16 lathe variable speed $1000. And a Harbor freight mill $500.
Great learning tools, essentially quality tools for the noob. Understand in taking the plunge with tooling to make all work, you'll need $500- $800 to buy assoceries. Bangood.com is suitable for much tooling . 4" rotary table can be had for $300. Again, not pro equipment, but suitable and useful for the hobbist. Tom

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If you have a really good idea of what you want to make, then describe it and you will get good advise.

When I started into this hobby (30+ years ago), here is the advice that was given to me. In retrospect, I now see that it was excellent advise and is probably one reason that I stuck with and have enjoyed this activity.
For general machining stuff - making a bit of this and a bit of that: just get a lathe. Get the biggest lathe that your maxed out budget can handle, just get the critical accessories that are difficult to get later (i.e. steadies and taper attachment) and push the budget a bit beyond the max. You will soon forget the pain of paying too much, but if you cheap out you will be constantly reminded that you should have paid more. The rational is that for the core machine, the only way to address short comings of that machine is to purchase another machine (and if you stay in the game, you probably will - but start with the best you can get). With the space and budget you say you are limited to, you are not talking about a very large machine.

Why just a lathe? With just a lathe, it is possible to do a lot of what would generally be done with a milling machine. Even without a mill attachment, you can still do a lot using the face plate, 4 jaw, various bolt-ons to the cross slide or compound. In fact it would be a real trade off as to what would be more versatile - a mid sized lathe or a mini-mill & mini-lathe. Likewise, it would be a real trade off whether the mid sized lathe would be better or a 3 in 1. Again, it depends on what you want to do - a regular lathe is extremely versatile.

This is a hobby that requires patience, perseverance and a lot of learning. At "hobby speed" you can easily spend 5 years getting really comfortable with a lathe. Get the milling machine later, when you know more about what machining is and what sort of work you are doing. If you get that mill now, when you really do not know what you are doing - then a certain amount of that will end up a sunk cost. Realistically, you cannot learn "machining" in a short period of time. I have done a lot of machining, yet a learn something new on about every job I do.

Of course, you can always sell that first machine on and get another machine, but it seems that there is always some loss in the effort to set it up, in tooling that does not really work for that next machine. There will be some sunk cost.

At the beginning, get only the absolute bare minimum of tooling. The reason here is you can buy the tooling later, at sale price, used OR AS YOU NEED IT. Many times I see people (myself included) purchase tooling because "it would sure be handy" yet it sits unused for years. You said this was for a hobby, so you can afford the time to purchase what you need for a certain project. Over the years, you will build up a good collection. You will learn to improvise with what you have (perhaps the job will take 2 hours when it would only be 10 minutes with the "right" tool - so what it is a hobby).

With just a decent lathe (not too small), drill press, bench grinder, some sort of cut off saw and work bench - you can do a lot. Obviously there will be some tasks that you really cannot do without that mill - but remember that regardless of what facility you have, there will almost always be limitations. As an "absolute beginner" the #1 limitation will be you. A lathe plus basic shop is a very competent arrangement.

I followed that advise above, I bought a 15x60 - I didn't even have the converter to power it up. I saved over the years and kept getting one more piece at a time. I learned how to use things along the way. One attachment I bought at the beginning was a milling attachment - turns out I hardly used it, I could usually figure out a work around using the lathe itself or a change in the design of what I was making. I filled out the rest of the shop, but no other machines for more than 25 years. That same machine 34 years is now pretty well dressed, I have used it a lot. I added on to the work shop a few years ago and have now gone a bit crazy buying "old junk" machines and fixing them up (see my signature line). I am glad to have those other machines and with really just a little tender loving care, they are pretty well as good as new (function wise). However, I still use that first machine, the 15x60 lathe, more than all the other machines put together.

Let us know how you make out. Regards, David
 
I would get something like the grizzly g0602 and a bench top mill drill
 
Also check out precision matthews I myself wouldn't like a combo machine you're gonna have to constantly reconfigure to go from turning to milling especially if you just need to b do something real quick
 
Thank you: your comments made me really think about my goals.

I am a sw engineer, but I studied also electronics and in my free time I would like to do some projects that will require milling PCBs and 3d printing boxes/cases. My plan was to:
1) Use the mill (or 3-in-1) to build the plates/adapters to convert it to CNC
2) Build myself an extruder to be attached to the mill collet, so that I can 3d print
3) Adapt an RC motor to create an high speed spindle for PCB milling.
4) There is always random stuff that break and being able to do some repair myself would be interesting

Of course other projects will come to mind when you have the tools... ;)

Looking at the points above, I think that having the cartesian positioning system of a mill is a must.

What do you think?
 
Marco M. said:
Thank you: your comments made me really think about my goals.

I am a sw engineer, but I studied also electronics and in my free time I would like to do some projects that will require milling PCBs and 3d printing boxes/cases. My plan was to:
1) Use the mill (or 3-in-1) to build the plates/adapters to convert it to CNC
2) Build myself an extruder to be attached to the mill collet, so that I can 3d print
3) Adapt an RC motor to create an high speed spindle for PCB milling.
4) There is always random stuff that break and being able to do some repair myself would be interesting

Of course other projects will come to mind when you have the tools... ;)

Looking at the points above, I think that having the cartesian positioning system of a mill is a must.

What do you think?
Click to expand...
I am not a CNC guy, but wouldn't a sturdy CNC router type machine be more appropriate for achieving those types of results? They can be home built or purchased ready to use, and would probably fit your available space better. The 3-in-1 is a bit heavy and coarse for that sort of work, unless you really want to cut steel with significant metal removal regularly. Converting a 3-in-1 to CNC seems like quite a project to me...
 
Marco M. said:
Thank you: your comments made me really think about my goals.

I am a sw engineer, but I studied also electronics and in my free time I would like to do some projects that will require milling PCBs and 3d printing boxes/cases. My plan was to:
1) Use the mill (or 3-in-1) to build the plates/adapters to convert it to CNC
2) Build myself an extruder to be attached to the mill collet, so that I can 3d print
3) Adapt an RC motor to create an high speed spindle for PCB milling.
4) There is always random stuff that break and being able to do some repair myself would be interesting

Of course other projects will come to mind when you have the tools... ;)

Looking at the points above, I think that having the cartesian positioning system of a mill is a must.

What do you think?
Click to expand...

If your main thing is going to be co-ordinate drilling and working sheet material - then a decent XY table probably is the way to go. I think Bob has provided some very sound advice, building a CNC off a cheap manual machine is quite a project. There are a number of CNC builds documented on this (and other) websites - you should consider how they manage backlash and what your solution is going to be, before committing to a certain approach. Let us know how you make out. Regards, David
 
tweinke said:
In my opinion having started with a 3in1 machine, If you have time and patience the 3in1 will make parts that fit in its work envelope. I think the Smithy machines are probably the more refined of the 3in1 machines. I found it a bit of a pain to get parts to a height that was acceptable for milling at times. You will probably not be hogging material off with the mill like you see in some videos on the net but reasonable depth cuts work out pretty well. Quality of work will mostly depend on you and your setups. One thing you will learn quickly due to the combination mill/lathe is work order needs to be well thought out or you will spend a lot of time switching back and forth between lathe and mill. Can you make good parts with accuracy that also look good, yes you can. If I wouldn't have bought my Shoptask 1720xmtc used I never would have been able to start in this hobby so I will not put down 3in1 machines. Hopefully this helps you, just remember to get the biggest machine or machines you can fit in your budget and space. :encourage:
Click to expand...
I too began with a 3 in 1 ( shoptask) and also found limits due to the time for change over. Ridgity is another concern even though the added supports that this machine had. I went with a small variable speed lathe ( grizzley 8 x 16 ) and a harbor freight mill (mini mill). I find as a hobbist, two separate machines better serves my needs. I turn aluminum, brass, cast bronze, plastics & some 1020 steel. Just depends upon what your intentions and vision is. Tom

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk
 
Today I had the chance to see a Damatomacchine Master 520 (https://www.dmitaliasrl.com/en/combo-lathe-milling-machines/lathe-milling-machine-master-520.php). It's a Chinese product, but it's checked and improved in Italy and Switzerland.
Now I'm trying to compare it with a Proxxon 500/BL (https://www.proxxon.com/en/micromot/24350.php) with a rotary table: what do you think about rigidity? The spindle sleeve doesn't seem very sturdy...
The advantages of the latter are that it's made in Germany and it's already designed to be converted to CNC and to attach a high-speed tool for PCB milling.

Thank you
Marco
 
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