My Clock Build Project Thread

devils4ever said:
I'm starting to think about hardening the pinions and escapement pallets. It's a ways off, but I'm thinking ahead. The pallet is 4140 steel and the arbors are W1 drill rod.

My first thoughts were propane or MAP torch, but now I'm not so sure. I've never hardened anything. I've been looking at the Hot Shot 360 oven series which seem to be highly regarded and not overly priced. I'm thinking these are much more precise that a torch.

Thoughts?
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Propane is more than up to the task for those small parts. MAP would be a bit quicker. No need for an oven.

IMO opinion it is not worth hardening the pinions, and creates the challenge of polishing the teeth again. high heat will produce a scale unless you can keep oxygen from the parts. That leads you to wrapping in stainless foil and placing a bit of wood inside to use up the oxygen. All adding up to another journey with more $.

Bluing generally requires less than 500F, not enough to harden anything. It is also a good temperature to temper from full hard to something less brittle.

A good 2 part explanation:
 
The pinions may do better if hardened.

If you use a clean oxy/ace flame of correct size, it should only take seconds, heat and drop into oil or ???

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gerritv said:
Propane is more than up to the task for those small parts. MAP would be a bit quicker. No need for an oven.

IMO opinion it is not worth hardening the pinions, and creates the challenge of polishing the teeth again. high heat will produce a scale unless you can keep oxygen from the parts. That leads you to wrapping in stainless foil and placing a bit of wood inside to use up the oxygen. All adding up to another journey with more $.

Bluing generally requires less than 500F, not enough to harden anything. It is also a good temperature to temper from full hard to something less brittle.

A good 2 part explanation:
Click to expand...
It would occur to me that you need to bring the metal to a certain temperature regardless of the BTUs in the flame your are using, with the proper torch technique you simply accomplish this quicker. All the times I have used heat from accomplishing task I have noted that with care I cause less damage when I apply the heat quickly then remove it with the exception being the requirement to apply a certain heat for a specific length of time.
 
gerritv said:
IMO opinion it is not worth hardening the pinions, and creates the challenge of polishing the teeth again. high heat will produce a scale unless you can keep oxygen from the parts. That leads you to wrapping in stainless foil and placing a bit of wood inside to use up the oxygen. All adding up to another journey with more $.
Click to expand...
Clickspring uses Borax slurry to coat steel parts for heat treating, and it seems he needs to do minimal cleanup.
 
verbotenwhisky said:
It would occur to me that you need to bring the metal to a certain temperature regardless of the BTUs in the flame your are using, with the proper torch technique you simply accomplish this quicker. All the times I have used heat from accomplishing task I have noted that with care I cause less damage when I apply the heat quickly then remove it with the exception being the requirement to apply a certain heat for a specific length of time.
Click to expand...
He can spend an extra 2 minutes or less getting the small part (pallets) to temperature (non-magnetic) or a boat load of money on oxy/propane/acetylene/MAP torch and tanks or a heat treat oven. I'm just providing a view into an affordable alternative.
 
Yes, I was planning on using MAPP with that torch. Where to get Borax?
 
Walmart is a good source, 20 Mule Team brand. There are more expensive options such as silver solder flux.
 
Clickspring uses Boric Acid mixed with alcohol. It can be purchased through Amazon, I bought mine from the local pharmacist. I only have tried it once with mixed results on a set of piston rings. Had them stretched over a mandrel, then wrapped in wire as he does, then coated with the boric acid mixture.
With the mass of the mandrel I wanted to hold them hot for some additional time, so put them in the re-burn chamber of my wood fired boiler. Probably was too hot, the flux melted like glass on the rings. Where I could get it off the metal was pristine, so it works.
Turned out the scrap cast iron I used on that set was too course grained. Made another set with finer grained cast and simply heat treated them one by one with a propane torch.

Greg
 
You can't get MAPP any more (unless you already have it.) You can only get MAP which is not as hot. It's actually kind of a scam that they now label something MAP Pro. Deliberately confusing if you ask me.
Another option for this and future use is to buy a used oxygen concentrator and set up a small oxy/propane system. You can only get a small flame but it is very hot. In my experience, better than Bernzomatic 8000.
 
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