Need Help With 1 Hp Motor

[9Sec93LX]

You guys have raised this discussion/debate, to a level that's way over my head. I'm not complaining, I actually love reading these type of posts, and am glad I was the one to start the ball rolling. SO, now I'm hopping someone will dumb this down enough for me to get 1 answer. Will it help to replace the cap. or not ? A quick review: My motor starts, and spins up to max rpm every time. When cutting a 5"wide, 1"thick steel plate, a tooth caught while breaking through, and the motor stopped rather than spin the belt. this was on the middle pulleys (120sfm). Yesterday, I spent over 3 hrs. cutting 1-5/16" dia. round bar, using the top pulleys (80 sfm) , and no problems except once when the blade got pinched (my fault). But this time, (in the lowest speed mind you) the motor kept turning and the small pulley slipped in the belt (somewhat loose belt tension had not been changed since the plate cut). If changing the cap., which is the limit of elect. motor ability, will give it a little more power, so that it won't stall in the 120spm speed, I will do it. Otherwise, I will follow others advise, and keep it in low speed. Anyone got an answer? Thanks, JR49

Sorry about that JR,
It was never my intention to go this far with the discussion and hijack your thread.
For that I apologize.
To answer your question as quickly as possible. If you remove the capacitor and take it to your local electric motor repair shop they will have a "capacitor tester" in their inventory of tools.
There they can "test" your capacitor to see if it is within tolerance.
If it IS within tolerance, changing it will NOT help your problem.
If it is NOT within spec, changing it WILL help your problem.
You can NOT change capacitor values randomly expecting it to "BOOST" motor torque (Sorry).
The capacitor is engineered to work with the windings that the motor came with and they work as a team.
Doing otherwise would be like trying to reinvent the wheel.
Simple, RIGHT....LOL
Good Luck
Tommy

 

[Mr. Fixit]

You guys have raised this discussion/debate, to a level that's way over my head. I'm not complaining, I actually love reading these type of posts, and am glad I was the one to start the ball rolling. SO, now I'm hopping someone will dumb this down enough for me to get 1 answer. Will it help to replace the cap. or not ? A quick review: My motor starts, and spins up to max rpm every time. When cutting a 5"wide, 1"thick steel plate, a tooth caught while breaking through, and the motor stopped rather than spin the belt. this was on the middle pulleys (120sfm). Yesterday, I spent over 3 hrs. cutting 1-5/16" dia. round bar, using the top pulleys (80 sfm) , and no problems except once when the blade got pinched (my fault). But this time, (in the lowest speed mind you) the motor kept turning and the small pulley slipped in the belt (somewhat loose belt tension had not been changed since the plate cut). If changing the cap., which is the limit of elect. motor ability, will give it a little more power, so that it won't stall in the 120spm speed, I will do it. Otherwise, I will follow others advise, and keep it in low speed. Anyone got an answer? Thanks, JR49

Please help us a little. I' not to get int cap start or cap run. Is there a large cover in the side of the motor? If so is . so what is the value of the capacitor?. If it a capacitor start motor which I believe it is,the value will be larger number rated in micro-farads. If the motor comes up to full speed as soon as it energized the capacitor is good. Try and remove the end housing bell from from the motor carefully,be sure you place a scratch across the bell and housing This help in getting the mounting feet in the same plane. Do not try and pry it with a large tool. If Yugo can get a flat screw driver between the to pieces just pry a little and work your way around. After it is remove the flyweight from the end and underneath the flyweight is a flat metal switch, ensure that that switch is stuck together get it apart and take some very fine emery or sand paper and hold it between the switch contacts an smooth them out. The motor speed is fixed and changing pulley arrangement will only effect the cutting speed.
Try and run the motor without any load and see if it comes up full speed. check to see if the gear box turns freely ,if it doesn't that issue will have to addressed as a separate issue. I know that this sound undoable but take your time and let us know what you found. I will start with what info you provide to go to the next step. I will use technical terms and language but in simple and understandable English. I am retired so don't worry about the time. As I like to say: I'm a thousand miles from nowhere and time don't matter to me.

 

[Mr. Fixit]

Please help us a little. I'll not to get into cap start or cap run. Is there a large cover in the side of the motor? If so is . so what is the value of the capacitor?. If it a capacitor start motor which I believe it is,the value will be larger number rated in micro-farads. If the motor comes up to full speed as soon as it energized the capacitor is good. Try and remove the end housing bell from from the motor carefully,be sure you place a scratch across the bell and housing This help in getting the mounting feet in the same plane. Do not try and pry it with a large tool. If Yugo can get a flat screw driver between the to pieces just pry a little and work your way around. After it is remove the flyweight from the end and underneath the flyweight is a flat metal switch, ensure that that switch is stuck together get it apart and take some very fine emery or sand paper and hold it between the switch contacts an smooth them out. The motor speed is fixed and changing pulley arrangement will only effect the cutting speed.
Try and run the motor without any load and see if it comes up full speed. check to see if the gear box turns freely ,if it doesn't that issue will have to addressed as a separate issue. I know that this sound undoable but take your time and let us know what you found. I will start with what info you provide to go to the next step. I will use technical terms and language but in simple and understandable English. I am retired so don't worry about the time. As I like to say: I'm a thousand miles from nowhere and time don't matter to me.

 

[JR49]

Sorry about that JR,
It was never my intention to go this far with the discussion and hijack your thread.
For that I apologize.

Absolutely NO apology needed, Tommy, the little I know about machining, I got from reading posts (mostly right here), that I didn't understand, but eventually, some of It sunk in. Someday, thanks to guys like you, I will post an answer to a novice's question about motors, and he will think I'm an expert, ya right. About getting more power, I'm not trying to hot rod it, I only meant that if it isn't up to factory spec because of a bad cap, I would replace it to get back any lost power. I am planning to find an electric motor repair place. Final question, would you expect them to test my cap. for free or charge me? Caps. are pretty cheap, (I think), so if they charge, I might save by just buying a new one, and try it. What do you think? Thanks JR49

 

[Mr. Fixit]

You guys have raised this discussion/debate, to a level that's way over my head. I'm not complaining, I actually love reading these type of posts, and am glad I was the one to start the ball rolling. SO, now I'm hopping someone will dumb this down enough for me to get 1 answer. Will it help to replace the cap. or not ? A quick review: My motor starts, and spins up to max rpm every time. When cutting a 5"wide, 1"thick steel plate, a tooth caught while breaking through, and the motor stopped rather than spin the belt. this was on the middle pulleys (120sfm). Yesterday, I spent over 3 hrs. cutting 1-5/16" dia. round bar, using the top pulleys (80 sfm) , and no problems except once when the blade got pinched (my fault). But this time, (in the lowest speed mind you) the motor kept turning and the small pulley slipped in the belt (somewhat loose belt tension had not been changed since the plate cut). If changing the cap., which is the limit of elect. motor ability, will give it a little more power, so that it won't stall in the 120spm speed, I will do it. Otherwise, I will follow others advise, and keep it in low speed. Anyone got an answer? Thanks, JR49

Sorry to correct my own reply, I'll make it a lot easier. Remove belts from machine, next energize the motor and after it comes up to speed, deenrgize the motor and listen for a click ( usually the click is noticeable) as motor slows down to a stop. This will help decide if is a motor problem or gearbox problem. please reply and let me know which direction to go. I see that HF has the saw on sale for $260.00 this will help on how much repairs are.

 

[RJSakowski]

Given that the motor is highly overrated by the manufacturer and is probably closer to 1/3 hp, the 35 mfd capacitor is not far from reality. On the the other hand, 35 mfd is within the ballpark for a permanent split capacitor motor as well.

To determine whether the motor is a capacitor start motor or a permanent split capacitor motor, listen for the click of the centrifugal switch as the motor winds up or down. If you hear it, it is a capacitor start motor; if there is no click then it is a permanent split capacitor motor motor.

If it is a capacitor start motor, the capacitor is not in the circuit during cutting and if the saw bogs down, it is most likely due to being overloaded trying to make a cut in 5" of steel. It sound like changing to the low speed pulley arrangement has solved your problem. It this point, I would expect the the motor is performing normally. It is on the small side for this application and the solution would be to install a larger motor. However, be aware that doing so may overload other components of the saw. If you only use the saw infrequently, it may be best to live with the inadequacies.

Bob

 

[JR49]

I just went out and did as you guys suggested. First I took the belt off, then turned motor on and off at least 5 times, and every time both starting, then letting it get up to full rpm, and stopping, and listening carefully until the motor came to a stop, there was no click either heard or felt (I held my hand on the back cover). So, if I'm understanding what has been said it is not a start cap., it is a run cap.. So, if the "run cap." is faulty, then this motor will develop less power than it did when new, and the cap. was not faulty, (even if the power, when new was a lot less than H.F. claims). Remember, I'm not trying to hot rod it, but if it is less then it should be, and a new inexpensive cap can make "all that it can be", than I will do that. If not, then I'm happy with it as is. At 66, hacksaws are out of the question. Thanks again, JR49

 

[9Sec93LX]

Absolutely NO apology needed, Tommy, the little I know about machining, I got from reading posts (mostly right here), that I didn't understand, but eventually, some of It sunk in. Someday, thanks to guys like you, I will post an answer to a novice's question about motors, and he will think I'm an expert, ya right. About getting more power, I'm not trying to hot rod it, I only meant that if it isn't up to factory spec because of a bad cap, I would replace it to get back any lost power. I am planning to find an electric motor repair place. Final question, would you expect them to test my cap. for free or charge me? Caps. are pretty cheap, (I think), so if they charge, I might save by just buying a new one, and try it. What do you think? Thanks JR49

JR,

MOST motor shops won't charge you to test a capacitor if you bring them the capacitor in hand (on the assumption that if it's bad you buy your new cap. from THEM.
When you call them to get directions, you can inquire if they'll be any charge and if they have a cap. of said value already in stock.
Of course if they have to disassemble your motor to remove it, labor charges will apply.
Most caps are indeed very inexpensive, but if it's good why waste your money?

One more tip (oh NO I know...) replacement Run caps are usually quite a bit larger than the undersized OEM Chinese jobs, because replacement caps are rated @370V for a larger Safety Factor and the HF one probably isn't even marked as to it's original voltage rating.
So you will HAVE TO make a new enclosure for the new cap (if larger) as you NEVER want to leave any Cap. exposed (see my earlier Ka-Boom comment).

 

[9Sec93LX]

I just went out and did as you guys suggested. First I took the belt off, then turned motor on and off at least 5 times, and every time both starting, then letting it get up to full rpm, and stopping, and listening carefully until the motor came to a stop, there was no click either heard or felt (I held my hand on the back cover). So, if I'm understanding what has been said it is not a start cap., it is a run cap.. So, if the "run cap." is faulty, then this motor will develop less power than it did when new, and the cap. was not faulty, (even if the power, when new was a lot less than H.F. claims). Remember, I'm not trying to hot rod it, but if it is less then it should be, and a new inexpensive cap can make "all that it can be", than I will do that. If not, then I'm happy with it as is. At 66, hacksaws are out of the question. Thanks again, JR49

Given that the motor is highly overrated by the manufacturer and is probably closer to 1/3 hp, the 35 mfd capacitor is not far from reality. On the the other hand, 35 mfd is within the ballpark for a permanent split capacitor motor as well.

To determine whether the motor is a capacitor start motor or a permanent split capacitor motor, listen for the click of the centrifugal switch as the motor winds up or down. If you hear it, it is a capacitor start motor; if there is no click then it is a permanent split capacitor motor motor.

If it is a capacitor start motor, the capacitor is not in the circuit during cutting and if the saw bogs down, it is most likely due to being overloaded trying to make a cut in 5" of steel. It sound like changing to the low speed pulley arrangement has solved your problem. It this point, I would expect the the motor is performing normally. It is on the small side for this application and the solution would be to install a larger motor. However, be aware that doing so may overload other components of the saw. If you only use the saw infrequently, it may be best to live with the inadequacies.

Bob

RJ,
Great suggestion to listen for the Starting switch click.

JR,
You got it.
See my lengthy explanation(s) were NOT over your head after all. Class Dismissed. LOL

 

[Mr. Fixit]

Good morning: I am enjoying this discussion and I will not let an electrical problem defeat me. I worked 30 years in the natural gas plant I as an electrical instrument and electrician although we used 480vac the trouble shooting is the same. I see that you tried what was suggested, which is great so now down to the motor. If you would post pictures of the motor it will help. I'm just a little older than you and I understand about the purchase of a saw-and I do not add any new power tools to my shop. I went online and read the owners manual and the pictures show a capacitor start motor. The repair parts just say motor. Again pictures will help and if you unplug saw and remove capacitor cover on the side and let us know the value.