Need to get an upright mill for my farm shop…HELP!

Ezra_Walker said:
Here’s the dope. I got all excited to make my own bearings, reface pins and create basic heavy steel stuff for my heavy equipment repair needs. So I got on Griz-site and ordered a lathe that has so far worked perfectly. But now I need to produce more complex parts in our wind and solar farm and for building farm implement attachments since heavy metal prices have gone crazy. Here’s the skinny. It has to chip steel (not fast or deep but lots of it) and I would prefer metal gears…unless I don’t? I did a lot of research for the lathe but frankly I could use some help finding a good small mill. A bench top is fine but it has to be able to handle REAL work…and (please don’t laugh…too hard…)I’ve only got about a thousand bucks.
Facing, shaping, slotting and shaping mild steel, stainless, aluminum in fairly large pieces (up to 18” long, 1” thick or 1/4” walled tubing etc. gear making would be nice but that’s probably not going to happen in my budget.
Can anyone recommend a mill new or used that would do the basic tasks here on the farm?
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Hello and welcome,

All good advice here.

Two questions:

First, do you have the capability to move a 4000 lb. machine?

Second, do you have power available to run a 5+ hp machine?

If you answer yes to both questions you can probably get a worthy machine in your price range by going bigger than most hobby folks want or need. Serious industrial tools are out there and often go cheap because working shops don’t want them and they’re too big for the average garage.

Seeing that you’re on a farm I didn’t bother to ask how much room you have available.

Long drive but here’s one:

www.ebay.com

Van Norman Milling Machine 16L | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Van Norman Milling Machine 16L at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

Something like this will take a lot of work but there’s folks on here who can help with advice and maybe even parts. If you keep an eye on local auctions this type of machine will come up, just post up pictures of what you’re looking at and you’ll get an honest assessment from folks here.

If this is all too much you can start with a used Rong Fu 30 clone like I have which will do much of what you need, but not everything. I got mine for $850 in running condition and it fits my space, but sure would like something more substantial if I had room.

John
 
You have received a lot of good advice. I'll try to organize it in one post for easy reference.

Step by step list, by increasing capability:

1. RF30 or equivalent (round column bench mill/drill)
2. Bridgeport J-head 9x42 (step pulley) or equivalent clone (recommend using a VFD)
3. Wells-Index 847 or equivalent (heavier, larger Bridgeport with variable-speed and more HP)
4. Kearney & Trecker or equivalent horizontal/vertical mill, 5 HP or more

Step 1 can be run (barely) on a 20-amp 120V circuit, or better yet easily on a 20-amp 240V circuit, both single phase. Steps 2 and 3 are almost all 3-phase 240V power, but can be run off single phase with a phase converter or VFD (Variable Frequency Drive). With the VFD a step-pulley machine becomes a versatile variable-speed machine. Step 4 will need a big phase converter with a soft-start to run on a residential-level single-phase power service. It probably won't be an advantage to use a VFD except as a phase converter/soft start.

Pretty much any of these machines will lose no resale value if still running and not abused by you before you sell. The step 2 mills are handy enough that you will be tempted to keep it if you move up, and probably will be happy if you do keep it. If you move from step 3 to 4, and haven't kept the step 2 mill, consider keeping the step 3 mill for the same reason.

The first 3 steps are likely to have R8 spindle tapers. The step 3 mills are the point where you start to see larger (and better) tapers, but the R8 tooling is everywhere, and reasonably priced.
 
Since you are looking thrifty, consider a CNC knee mill with a dead control. They go for scrap price. Then put handles on in place of the servos. Watch the local auctions for the best deals.
 
You have received some good advice.
Speaking from experience, a J head Bridgeport or variable speed version is on the light side of the work envelope you describe for farm equipment. They (and clones) are very versatile for multiple types of set-ups if time is not really a concern. But very limited on capacity of the table and spindle. And you frequently have to adjust tram when doing "heavy" cutting. Doesn't take much to knock it out during routine milling. I'm talking 3/4 inch and 7/8 diameter endmills on carbon steel with moderate speeds and feeds. And pushing a 1/2 diameter drill through various ferrous is about the max with care. The biggest stuff I do on my Bridegport are heads from V-8 engines. Stuck rocker pins mostly.
Anything bigger goes on my VN horizontal mill. The old horizontal mills have nice large tables to clamp down oddball shaped stuff. And the weight capacity to handle it. And you can get a decent condition horizontal mill for almost scrap price.

I used some very nice Bridgeports, Sharp, and Acer, brand knee mills at the tech school. 30 taper spindles,multi-hp motors. But for heavy cutting the old B&S horizontal mill was still used. The only limiting factor on the horizontal was lack of tooling and set up time. During the move of the machine shop into a new wing; some tooling for it got lost. But still pertinent in a modern tech school shop with a $$$$ CNC milling centers and lathes.

Regardless of type, look for the best package of tooling and accessories you can find plus the mill. Unavailable or rare tooling is a real problem to get the most out of any machine.
 
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So, I came back to explain about BP clones and why I think they are a good deal. I have been ecstatic over my Lagun FTV-3 for a few years now. I was patient, and I spotted a bad photo from a local auction house that had the mill pushed against some other equipment. It was poorly advertized, one point! I went to the auction. There were 60 people there, but nobody but me was checking out that mill. When the auction came, one or two guys kinda sorta hung in there, but they were just testing the water. I won the auction at $1600 even. Well, cash plus patience...

Here is the empirical comparison. Running the two machines are different, the Lagun doesn't rattle or clank, but up front:

Bridgeport (2J Series 1): Table 49"x9", travel 31"x12", knee load max 750 lb, spindle 2hp, weight 1930 lbs.
Lagun FTV-3: Table 58"x11", travel 38"x18", knee load max 1500 lbs, spindle 3hp, weight 3660 lbs.

So I've established that the price between good "clone" mills like Lagun/Sharp/Acer/etc. and genuine Bridgeport junk as similar, but when you bring machine specifications into focus, the balance tips like a landslide toward a good clone. Better specs, more power, better condition generally across the board for the machine's age, more rigid machine for your hard earned money.

I don't know who has experience working on worn out machines, but I sure do. Sure, you learn how to compensate for wear and slop, which is important for every machinista, but it is frustrating when the work doesn't come out matching the effort that went in. So don't buy a worn out machine. That, unfortunately, excludes MOST of the Bridgeports on the used market.

My opinion is worth two/100ths of a dollar to anyone who could care less, in exact change only.
 
pontiac428 said:
Edit: Here's another hot tip. You're in a sweet spot location for lathes. There are a lot of retirees who set up shops between Spokane and Calispell. I see great deals on equipment in that area on the regular, so search wide!
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I live in Kalispell and must be missing them. I don't check the Spokane CL as often but do check the Kalispell regular. If see anything please let me know. My lathe I went to do some work for someone and he was cleaning out his deceased Brothers shop and was able to make a trade. My mill came from an acquaintances coworker.


Reading through the suggestions I would add Cincinnati to your search. BTW, welcome.
 
Gnpenning said:
I live in Kalispell and must be missing them. I don't check the Spokane CL as often but do check the Kalispell regular. If see anything please let me know. My lathe I went to do some work for someone and he was cleaning out his deceased Brothers shop and was able to make a trade. My mill came from an acquaintances coworker.


Reading through the suggestions I would add Cincinnati to your search. BTW, welcome.
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I scoured the earth for years searching for nice industrial grade equipment to replace my hobby grade machines. I swear, the nicest stuff came up in Spokane, Coeur d'Alene, and Kalispell. I specifically recall a cherry 14" Nardini, a Takisawa with tooling, and some good mills as standouts; it seemed like a good market to shop in. To rub salt in it, a good friend just had to sell a BP, an all-angle mill, and a wartime heavy lathe as SCRAP in Spokane because he couldn't find buyers in Coleville WA. That was in the last 6 months. His dad went downhill in a hurry, he had to liquidate his shop. I think that's the story in that part of the country, people go there to retire, set up shop, and eventually someone has to manage the estate. It ends up on Craigslist.
 
"So I've established that the price between good "clone" mills like Lagun/Sharp/Acer/etc. and genuine Bridgeport junk as similar, but when you bring machine specifications into focus, the balance tips like a landslide toward a good clone. Better specs, more power, better condition generally across the board for the machine's age, more rigid machine for your hard earned money."

Pontiac428,
I agree entirely. But I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic. Some people can get defensive if you point out the shortcomings of the Bridgeports. Bridgeport really had no reason to upgrade much over the years because of their market niche. Only toward the end they brought out the Series IIs.
When I say Bridgeport clone, I really mean an almost identical copy. Seen a few in person. Not impressed.
The modern Acer, Sharps, etc with box ways, 30 taper spindles, etc are in a higher class. Call them third generation vertical knee mills. This is what I used in school. More expensive for sure to go with the capability and condition.
We did have a few older Bridgeports with variable speed heads. One had a shaper head(R8 spindle). Other a dividing head (30 taper).
The price of a third generation mill is out of reach for most here. And not needed for the vast majority of what folks here would ever need.
For general machining on large ag equipment, the old horizontal mill still gets my recommendation. Especially for the price.
 
I'm not saying Bridgeports aren't good machines; they usually are older and have had 15 prior owners, maybe 5 of which thought they could "improve" the machine as a favor to you as a future owner. And they won't let you forget how much bigger their last owner's tools were compared to yours.

There are cloth diaper buffed trailer queen Bridgeports with machine-turned embellishments and hand-flaked surfaces out there, but the seller will let you know if he has one by asking for "offers" and "serious inquiries only". Those may be tight machines, but outta my price range.
 
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