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PM-30mv - Acorn, Arizona99 CNC kit, Clearpath Servo build

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Paul Bird

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Thought I would start a build thread for sharing information and for suggestions from this community. I ordered a PM-30mv on January 29th and it shipped on February 7. It will be broken down, cleaned and assembled from the get go with a CNC kit. Eventually I will be putting a power drawbar on this mill along with some form of automatic tool changer.

CNC Conversion Kit:
Arizona99 (David Clements)

Controller:
Centroid Acorn w/wireless pendant

Servos:
Clearpath 3432ELS for Z
Clearpath 3421ELS for X&Y

Power Supplies:
Clearpath IPC-5 for Z
Clearpath IPC-5 shared for X&Y

Tooling:
Tormach Tooling System

Coolant:
Fogbuster - Single 1/2 Gallon kit with solenoid

Touch Sensor:
??? Leaning toward a Hallmark ITTP

Pictures of Electronics and mill unboxing to follow.

Paul Bird
 

Landmark

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I'm happy to see that you got your mill and hit the ground running. I was wondering if you tried the drawbar before before tearing it down? I have read in another thread about some users having trouble with the drawbar being really tight in the spindle. I thought it was just an isolated incident but when I tried to mount the TTS collet I couldn't get the drawbar to go all the way down and screw into the collet. I fooled around with it and found that the shoulder below the head of the drawbar was binding with the spindle cap. If I remove the spindle cap it works fine. The drawbar fits into the spindle cap fine if it is removed from the mill. So it seems that something is off center.

Do you have an ETA on the CNC kit?

Mark
 

Paul Bird

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I have fit the Tormach R8 to TTS adapter. The only issue I had was the pin to indicate the R8 collet was too long. I used a large screwdriver to push the pin in slightly which allowed the tts adapter to fit. I haven't checked the drawbar but I will tonight.

No kit yet from Arizona99.
 

Landmark

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Thanks Paul. It's not a big deal since the drawbar and possibly the spindle cap will be replace with the PDB install. But I may contact PM support to see what they say. I look forward to seeing your conversion progress.
 

Cooter Brown

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I am in the middle of a CNC conversion with Clearpath servos but using a Masso controller. I cant wait to see your progress...

I thought about using Tormach TTS tool holders but now I have decided to use ER32 Collet holders with a 3/4" R8 collet...


I'm going to cut the 6" shank down to about 3"....
 

Paul Bird

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Got an email back from Dave (Arizona99) and he is close. He said the parts should be done next week.

Paul
 

Landmark

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Got an email back from Dave (Arizona99) and he is close. He said the parts should be done next week.

Paul
Hi Paul,

Did you ever receive the conversion parts from Arizona99?
 

arizonavideo

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I know someone else who was getting parts from the same guy (for the PM-940 though) and it was "almost done, should be next week" for like 8 months...

Paul's PM-30 kit was delivered a few days ago. It is a new kit and there has been a back order for the units. It is new so getting them out takes more time than a kit like the PM-25 that I have been making for years.

A example of a little thing is the couplers. I had been using 30mm couplers and most of the steppers had 1/2" or 3/8" shafts 25mm long. Well now everyone want the closed loop or servos that have longer 14mm shafts. The would not work without cutting the shafts with the 30mm couplers.

I ordered 35mm couplers but they have a really long wait time. So I re did all the drive size mounts to take 40mm couplers which are easier to get.

Re doing all the parts to get that fixed does take time.

The kit is now shipping and I can do 35mm or 40mm couplers and Nema 23 or 34 for the X and Y and all the couplers are in hand.

Just a example of one little thing that makes shipping a kit not so easy.

The PM940 is much the same story. It is now regularly shipping. 8 months ago would have been the first or second kit. I made each part one at a time and a few changes needed to be made. Now I'm mostly ramped up for both the kits.

Thanks
Dave AKA arizonavideo99
 

shooter123456

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Paul's PM-30 kit was delivered a few days ago. It is a new kit and there has been a back order for the units. It is new so getting them out takes more time than a kit like the PM-25 that I have been making for years.

A example of a little thing is the couplers. I had been using 30mm couplers and most of the steppers had 1/2" or 3/8" shafts 25mm long. Well now everyone want the closed loop or servos that have longer 14mm shafts. The would not work without cutting the shafts with the 30mm couplers.

I ordered 35mm couplers but they have a really long wait time. So I re did all the drive size mounts to take 40mm couplers which are easier to get.

Re doing all the parts to get that fixed does take time.

The kit is now shipping and I can do 35mm or 40mm couplers and Nema 23 or 34 for the X and Y and all the couplers are in hand.

Just a example of one little thing that makes shipping a kit not so easy.

The PM940 is much the same story. It is now regularly shipping. 8 months ago would have been the first or second kit. I made each part one at a time and a few changes needed to be made. Now I'm mostly ramped up for both the kits.

Thanks
Dave AKA arizonavideo99
Then why don't you tell people that? You told him next week, then he gets his kit 2 months later? Next week and 8 weeks are very different.
 

Landmark

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Paul, I'm happy to see that you received your conversion kit. How does it look? Please post some pictures if you can.
 

Paul Bird

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I got my parts a couple weeks ago. They look great but the X ballscrew setup didn't fit. My later sample from PM had a thicker top table than Dave's which caused the problem. I have sent those parts back and Dave and I will be working to get it right. Stay tuned.
 

Landmark

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I ordered a kit from Dave on the 14th and he had me measure the table thickness. Mine is the thinner one the he originally made the kit for. It's strange the we got our mills at the same time but have different tables. Mine has a date stamp of 7/2018. What is your date?
 

Paul Bird

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Got the new X axis parts from Dave last week and they fit great. As of yesterday I have a fully functioning cnc mill. I am very pleased with my purchase decision on the mill, Dave's parts, and Clearpath Servos. They are whisper quiet.

Now I have to get everything dialed in - squaring up the z axis and getting everything setup in the Acorn. I'll post some pictures when I get everything cleaned up.

BTW, the date code for my PM30 is 10/2018.
 

Firstgear

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Then why don't you tell people that? You told him next week, then he gets his kit 2 months later? Next week and 8 weeks are very different.
If you have ever developed a product like he is doing, little things come up that when you first look at it seems trivial, but then once into the details, like extra long lead times for particular couplings, causes you to backup the design so that those type of issues don’t derail you in the future. Another thing that derails designs is the opposite, component parts that were once readily available have been discontinued and now you are forced into another redesign.

If he was in control of 100% of the component designs, then no issue, but then also his costs and hence selling price would be a lot more. Having been in his shoes in engineering I understand the problem. If people don’t like the answers they can always purchase elsewhere.....assuming there is an elsewhere!
 

Landmark

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Awesome! I'm looking forward to seeing it running.
 

shooter123456

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If you have ever developed a product like he is doing, little things come up that when you first look at it seems trivial, but then once into the details, like extra long lead times for particular couplings, causes you to backup the design so that those type of issues don’t derail you in the future. Another thing that derails designs is the opposite, component parts that were once readily available have been discontinued and now you are forced into another redesign.

If he was in control of 100% of the component designs, then no issue, but then also his costs and hence selling price would be a lot more. Having been in his shoes in engineering I understand the problem. If people don’t like the answers they can always purchase elsewhere.....assuming there is an elsewhere!
I don't disagree with anything you have said, and you haven't actually disagreed with what I said either.

Sure there can be issues like you describe, but the key is open communication with people about those issues so they aren't left in the dark. Especially when those people have already paid for the product. It is one thing to say "The supplier for the couplers I am using has been unable to source them and has backordered them for 3 weeks" and "Your kit will be done next week." and then not saying anything until a month later when asked "Hey where is my kit?".

If you look back toward the beginning of the thread, the OP says "I got an email and the parts should be done next week." and over a month later, he is still waiting.
 

rafprecision

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I have been trying to acquire a PM30-MV CNC Kit from "Dave AKA arizonavideo99", for more than 6 weeks now.
We had email communication, initially, discussing mount options for X/Y and Z.
As a result of our email communication, I have purchased/received DMM AC Servos, and DMM's DYN2 drives for my PM30-MV CNC conversion.
Also, have a Centroid Acorn controller. Liking this setup so far!!! :)

However, Dave has gone "silent" on me these last few weeks! Don't know why, but I am definitely feeling a little frustration these days!!! :(

"Dave AKA arizonavideo99", best to maintain communication with your customers, not leave them in the "dark" for weeks on end.

Waiting for a response to my many recent email queries, including an "earnest money" payment via PayPal, for weeks now ... :(
 

Firstgear

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Paul Bird

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Been using my mill now for a couple months so I thought I would update. I used my mill for a couple weeks with little issue other than the beginning machinist. All was well until the spindle motor randomly stopped. First time it did this I had no idea what had happened other than a broken 1/4" carbide end mill. I proceeded to use the mill and about 10 hours of milling later, it did it again. Fortunately I was taking a skim cut and caught it. Now I was frustrated. I checked everything - even to the point of rewiring, emi chokes, etc. and the problem didn't resolve but got worse. Now the spindle wouldn't run 2 minutes without cutting out.

Since I had removed the drive unit from the mill, rewired everything and placed it in my electronics cabinet I was sort of stuck. I called Precision Mathews and ordered another motor and drive unit ($300 total with shipping - from China). They said it would take 3 to 4 weeks. Uhg. I simply could not wait that long so I started looking for an alternate option.

Long story short, I ended up ordering a Marathon inverter duty 2hp motor and Hitachi vfd. I received them a couple weeks ago and made a pulley, 3d printed motor stands, and wired it all up. Not sure if my original motor/drive setup was 100% (even though it seemed to run great until it didn't) or not but this new motor is night and day from the original. It is also three times the size and weight so I guess it should be. I still get the feeling that Chinese horses are a good bit smaller than American ones.

I am currently running it with a 1:.8 and 1:1.6 ratio as I reproduced the large end of the stock motor pulley for top and bottom. In hindsight, I should have gone with the same diameter of the large pulley on the spindle for a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio. This will probably get fixed when I do a spindle bearing upgrade.

The big Clearpath on the Z axis has no problem with the increased weight of the Marathon motor but I may do struts or a counterweight in the future just because. Anyway here are some before and after shots.

If anyone needs a new/never installed PM30 motor and drive, let me know.


20190529_230207.jpg20190529_230428.jpg20190718_202137.jpg20190724_002551.jpg
 

Cooter Brown

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Been using my mill now for a couple months so I thought I would update. I used my mill for a couple weeks with little issue other than the beginning machinist. All was well until the spindle motor randomly stopped. First time it did this I had no idea what had happened other than a broken 1/4" carbide end mill. I proceeded to use the mill and about 10 hours of milling later, it did it again. Fortunately I was taking a skim cut and caught it. Now I was frustrated. I checked everything - even to the point of rewiring, emi chokes, etc. and the problem didn't resolve but got worse. Now the spindle wouldn't run 2 minutes without cutting out.

Since I had removed the drive unit from the mill, rewired everything and placed it in my electronics cabinet I was sort of stuck. I called Precision Mathews and ordered another motor and drive unit ($300 total with shipping - from China). They said it would take 3 to 4 weeks. Uhg. I simply could not wait that long so I started looking for an alternate option.

Long story short, I ended up ordering a Marathon inverter duty 2hp motor and Hitachi vfd. I received them a couple weeks ago and made a pulley, 3d printed motor stands, and wired it all up. Not sure if my original motor/drive setup was 100% (even though it seemed to run great until it didn't) or not but this new motor is night and day from the original. It is also three times the size and weight so I guess it should be. I still get the feeling that Chinese horses are a good bit smaller than American ones.

I am currently running it with a 1:.8 and 1:1.6 ratio as I reproduced the large end of the stock motor pulley for top and bottom. In hindsight, I should have gone with the same diameter of the large pulley on the spindle for a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio. This will probably get fixed when I do a spindle bearing upgrade.

The big Clearpath on the Z axis has no problem with the increased weight of the Marathon motor but I may do struts or a counterweight in the future just because. Anyway here are some before and after shots.

If anyone needs a new/never installed PM30 motor and drive, let me know.


View attachment 300721View attachment 300724View attachment 300722View attachment 300723

Why do you have 2 IPC-5 power supplies?

One IPC-5 has more than enough power to run 4 servos all you need is a $20 board with 24v DC running to it....

This is my Clearpath project.... I'm running 3 SDSK-3432S-RLN on 1 IPC-5

Your wiring job looks awesome compared to mine..... lol
20180921_010905.jpg
20190817_132621.jpg
 
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arizonavideo

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Decided to move on from "Dave AKA arizonavideo99". Ordered CNC kit today, from Pro Cut CNC...


pic, obviously, is not the actual kit for PM30-MV. I have raised this to their attention! :)

More, after I receive this kit.

Just so you guys know I did not go dark with anyone's money. To keep track of orders, if it is going to be over a week or so, I will invoice you for $10. That way I don't hold your money.

I do my emails every day, sometimes twice. If I have lots of work I may skip a day or two. Emails can take a long time and sometimes I need to just make parts.

I was talking to Mitch and he wanted a kit fairly fast. Without me sending an invoice he just sent me $100 with a note saying" I hope that this gets your attention"

I generally like to have all the info on the invoice so I can make the correct mounting. The PM-30 has a lot of options being able to run the DMM 60mm servos, Nema 23, Nema 34 and the 86M servo. At the same time Mich sent the deposit, PM made a change to the PM-940 castings and the PM-30 with the thicker table. I had a bunch of stuff that no longer fit. I would have preferred to not take any PM-30 orders until I had the correct parts rolling out again.

For the last month or so I had to replace some of the Y mounts on the 940. They changed to a different top plate and I had 4 PM-30 kits out that needed to have the X axes replaced. I tried to get out a few new kits and still make replacement parts for the parts that no longer fit. I also started to re model a part of my house....

I have replaced all the past items and made a few new runs of the new correct fitting parts. I have also added the 60mm DMM 640 400 watt servo mounts to the kit for people who might want that drive setup.

I now have 4 PM-30 kits mostly ready to go out and no defects that need to be corrected. Everyone is happy hopefully.

Mitch , you never asked for a refund of the money you sent. You say you purchased a kit from ProCut so I guess you no longer want a kit so I refunded your payment.

Sorry I could not deliver in the time frame you wanted.

Thanks
Dave /Arizonavideo
 

matthewsx

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Running a small business in a hobby market is tough, especially when you're dealing with stuff beyond your control like manufacturers changing their designs.

The OP's machine looks great :encourage:

John
 

Paul Bird

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I went with two power supplies because it wasn't much more expensive than doing what you did and I have twice the current headroom. Might be important, might not, but I'd rather over do it one time. Also, a fourth axis is in my future and possibly a fifth.

Just to be clear, I am happy with the quality of kit I got from Dave. I would do it again.

Now to figure out a power drawbar that will fit in the reduced space left by the big motor. The 100mm air cylinder stack I bought won't fit. I think the 80mm might but I'm not crazy about buying a 175psi compressor just for that. Reluctantly leaning toward an air over hydraulic setup I saw on YouTube. Thoughts are welcome.
 
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