Ready to order my first mill, trying to make an educated choice

I used to think buying used was the best way. But after several years of having used stuff failing to be the good deal it seemed, I am very slow to buy anything that is used. If it is a decent piece in excellent condition chances are the price is close to new. If it is listed for a really good price, it probably has issues. I quit trying to find the magical “super deal” a long time ago.

When it comes to machine tools, I keep thinking of my friend who has SEVERAL used lathes and mills, and most of them do not operate. They need varying levels of repair. Once I set up my new lathe and mill from PM, I started making stuff and had no equipment reliability/functionality issues.

Now there is nothing wrong with buying a project, but you absolutely MUST know what you are doing. I know that from a LOT of personal experience in a lot of areas of endeavor. Many times getting a project is up to speed is more expensive than just buying new. All I have to do is look at a mismatched set of large sockets I bought used years ago, and quickly found I could have bought the same quality in a new set for the same money. Or remember all the cheap rifles—new and used— I bought thinking I could upgrade them into something good for less money. It is rare that we get more than we pay for, and going cheap and used is more expensive in the long run.

I currently have the largest machines I can get into my garage. However, if I did want a larger mill my choices today are a used Bridgeport for $5-$7k or one of PMs Taiwan made knee mills. I would not even hesitate to get the PM. Why?

1. PM Taiwan mills are of well known and well established as being of high quality

2. They have a 5-year warranty and excellent customer service if something does go wrong—unlike a used or reconditioned Bridgeport where you are most likely on your own

3. I don’t have to worry about worn components or a mediocre reconditioning job

The best approach is to buy the best quality we can afford and avoid used items until we know exactly what we are getting into.
 
Man, if I had that kind of budget I'd be ALL over that PM949TV! And for all the reasons you stated.

But I don't, so I'll just have to wimp along with my little PM935 and be glad I had the forethought to get it while I was still working. :D
 
I had the space and budget, the 949 would probably be my my choice as well. In the meantime Ill just have to make due with the 833.
 
This is how I ended up with a PM30 - I prioritized my spend on my lathe, but still needed a mill, that had about 20 inches of travel.

After thinking about it a bit, I realized I may want to make parts via a CNC upgrade so I picked a mill that fit that bill the best - for me it was the PM30. If I went bigger I started running out of space, and frankly using more table than the PM30 would only happen a couple of times in 4 years if at all...

I decided to get the power feed, but held off on the DRO because I might convert.
 
There really are no wrong answers in this--except for my own first mill purchase. While like Spot I prioritized the mill over the lathe--which is appropriate for gunsmithing rifles, I under bought the mill. I didn't know any better at the time, but some of these things you have to get into a bit before you get a full understanding of what you need. I could have easily ft the 30V (vs the 727MV) into my budget last year but I didn't understand enough about table travel and long range BR stocks last year.

I and some others here have pushed back pretty hard on the idea of buying an old used machine vs a buying new high quality machine, but that simply has to to with level of experience. If a guy knows what he is doing either through personal experience or extensive research and study, buying something like an old Bridgeport or South Bend isn't a bad decision. Its the guys with too little experience/study buying old machine tools that get into trouble with used. Over the years, I have gone through that trouble with: rifles, trumpets, hand tools, vehicles, computers, et al.

Nowadays I know enough about those above items that I know what a good value is for a properly functioning, reliable used item that will do what I need. I expect that I will soon enough develop that understanding for Laths and Mills. For me, and only if/when I get to move into a house with a large enough shop in 3-4 years, I could see getting a used Bridgeport/Taiwan Clone and another lathe.

The Bridgeport would probably be setup only for inletting stocks and the other lathe would let me keep my 1340 GT setup for chambering. The other would have a buck chuck dialed in to under .0005" and would be used for muzzle brakes, crowns, die modifications etc. In 3-4 years I should know what I am doing with mills and lathes, and since I will already have the 1340GT and 833T, adding an old mill or lathe that needs work won't keep me from making chips.
 
All good points INTJ. Reading more and more I feel lucky to have a forklift at work to receive delivery and a 3500 chevy flatbed with a crane to drive the mile from work and unload in my shop. I am leaning more for the pm932m. I wish I could afford the 835s but it wouldnt be in the budget for 6 months with all the tooling I still need to buy. The 940 is out of stock. Maybe by the time it comes back in I could spring for it. The more and more I research, the more I get weight and size mean everything. The pm30 is pretty much off my radar now as I feel I would be pushing that machine too hard. It's only money right haha
 
I concur - if you have the money and the room... get a knee bridge port equivalent= tiawnese if you can.

BUT... I know some guys who bought exactly that and then sold them to get CNC’s... ouch.. so even when you go big you can still have re-investment issues depending on the work you “might” get into.

I’m assuming the bigger machines add VFD’s as well - that increases the cost a bit more than most think...
Then the vise and chuck... so watch your total spend

Your wife can’t “UN-shoot” you. :)

I went 14x40 on my lathe so I have a foot brake (mechanical brake vs. a smaller machine).
 
My day job is in the granite industry, I got lots of friends in other trades always looking to swap work. Landlord said he will run whatever power I need whenever I am ready. I got an ex wife so no worries there either. Once I have a mill life will be good and I'll have no one to bother me all night and weekend while I play in the mad science laboratory besides my buddies who bring beer by to see what I am messing with :)
 
If someone thinks they want or need a CNC in the future, then a bed/bench mill makes sense. For me, I had zero interest or need of a CNC because everything I do is one-off custom stuff. So a small knee-mill seemed the right choice for me.

I couldn't afford the 1440, and honestly don't need it for what I do. For a few hundred bucks I added a VFD to my 1340 and now enjoy variable speed, soft-start, and a micro switch that I set to stop the lathe when it is tripped. Great for ID threading and blind hole boring. I also have a switch that gives me a one or three second spin down.

I later spent the money I saved on a very pricey 8" 3-jaw set-rite PBA. :eek:
 
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Makes a lot of sense wrmiller. If the time ever comes I need a cnc for production parts I should just buy a cnc at that point because profits would justify it. Plus, I would still want a manual mill for custom and one off stuff I dont want to program. If I get the mill and I just dont enjoy as much as I thought(always need an exit plan) or my stuff doesnt sell. The table mill is a much smaller lose and probably easier to sell. I think I am done deciding. Next week or two I will place an order for a PM 932.

Really appreciate all the help guys, thank you.

Are the PM vise, collets, clamping set and drill chuck worth picking up or do you guys have other recommendations?
 
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