[4]

Reccommend me a chuck

[3]
[10] Like what you see?
Click here to donate to this forum and upgrade your account!

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#1
Hi all,

I've been doing a few repetitive tasks on the lathe recently and using the 3 jaw is getting tiresome. I have decided that I would like to get a collet chuck of some description but I'm having a hard time of it.

I have settled on the idea of a 5C collet chuck for a few reasons.

I like that you can buy emergency collets for specific work.
I like that you can buy step collets for larger diameters.
I like that you can get expanding mandrels.
I like that you can fit a stop to it for repetitive work.

I don't like that that clamping range is limited but I can live with this.
I don't like that I could only get 1" bar through the back although for the sort of work I'd be using it for it isn't a huge problem.

I don't like however that there are often only two chuck key locations as sods law states that the lathe shall never come to rest with one of these in a convenient location, even on the three jaw.

So, I have been looking into speed chucks but apart from seeing a few turn up on eBay I've not really come across anything.

I am looking for a chuck (preferably 5C but I would settle for another system that does the same as long as collets are reasonably priced and readily available) that I can change out a work piece as quickly as possible. Lever operated would be a plus but ideally I'd like one with the lever behind the chuck rather than hanging out the back as this would be a bit too far to reach comfortably. The other ones I have seen are "Bjogren speed chucks" but I just can't seem to find any over this side of the pond.

Thanks in advance,

Sam
 

DAT510

H-M Supporter - Gold Member
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Oct 20, 2016
Messages
310
Likes
193
#2
A couple of questions come to mind...

What type of Lathe?
Do they make a Collet Closer setup for it? If not, could you build one for it?
 

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#3
Hi thanks for your reply. That is some key information I missed out there! It’s a manual lathe with a D1-4 spindle. It’s a Warco lathe (sold here in the U.K.) but seems similar to a number of offerings from othe sellers of Chinese / Taiwanese import machines.

Warco themselves do not offer a collect closer and while I am sure I could modify another to fit it would not be my first choice as all the ones that I have seen have the lever out back which would be a bit of a stretch to reach (although it wouldn’t be too bad if nothing else was available). Also I suspect that the change gear cover would get in the way of some designs.
 

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#4
I’m actually back tracking a little here. A lever operated collet closer would maybe work a little better. The lathe has a chuck guard fitted that if possible I’d rather not remove (just adds time onto a job). With a speed chuck (the ones with a handweel) I would have to lift the guard after each operation which would prove a faff.

Hmm, certainly something to consider. I would still welcome recommendations though! I just can’t seem to find a lot of good info over here. Probably partly because I don’t really know what I’m searching for!
 

mikey

Active User
H-M Supporter - Gold Member ($25)
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Messages
4,368
Likes
4,727
#6
Are you in a production situation that requires that much speed when changing parts? You seem to want to avoid losing even a few seconds when switching out parts in the chuck. If this is indeed the case then a lever closer is what you're looking for.
 

MrWhoopee

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
493
Likes
314
#7
I have used front side handwheel, back side handwheel and lever type collet closers. I have not used a collet-chuck closer. The handwheel type closers can be tiring and irritating to the hand(s) in repetitive work. A lever closer is the fastest and easiest to use, even allowing changing parts with the spindle turning.
 

Shootymacshootface

Active Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
109
Likes
66
#8
I have a Jacobs spindle nose collet chuck on my Clausing, it's accurate and very convenient.
 

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
5,673
Likes
5,990
#9

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#10
Are you in a production situation that requires that much speed when changing parts? You seem to want to avoid losing even a few seconds when switching out parts in the chuck. If this is indeed the case then a lever closer is what you're looking for.
If I’m going to get a collet closer I’d like to get one that is quick and easy to use for small production runs. I think it would also be more pleasurable to use for small runs of parts too but I can’t imagine the collet chuck would come out for day to day use where time taken to re chuck jobs is minimal.

Wow Bob, that shop built collet closer looks good! Pretty sure I’d have most of the stuff available to make one! I think that if I get this job I’ll look a little more into lever operated ones but if not I think this would win hands down over a speed chuck!
 
Last edited:

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#11
You will have better luck if you search on "Sjogren chuck", pronounced show-grin. They have been sold by Hardinge and others.
https://www.roviproducts.com/collet-chucks/sjogren-speed-manual-collet-chucks/
Ah yes, apologies, that was a typo in my original post! I’ve seen those but other than a few popping up on eBay (rarely for the correct spindle) I cant seem to find anywhere that sells them over here. I think after seeing your drawbar chuck though this seems like a much neater idea!
 

Bob Korves

H-M Supporter - Sustaining Member
H-M Platinum Supporter ($50)
Joined
Jul 2, 2014
Messages
5,673
Likes
5,990
#12
I am having one problem with the drawbar collet closer I built. The needle thrust bearings make it smooth and easy to tighten the work in the collet. However, they also have much less static friction, so they tend to let the setup loosen a bit each time the spindle is started, due to the inertia at rest of the hand wheel/drawbar assembly. I also suppose that the opposite happens when I shut down the spindle, but it must be to a lesser degree. I intuitively understood this issue when I when I designed and built the collet closer assembly, and lightened the hand wheel, which also improved the grip of it. At the time, I was more worried about it auto-tightening itself rather than coming loose. As it is now, the hand wheel needs to be tightened after every couple of starts or the drawbar goes loose on the collet. I am considering ideas to improve the situation. My ideas so far are further reducing the rotating mass of the hand wheel and/or perhaps making some sort of connection that would need to be manually released to loosen the drawbar. Well, further thinking while writing this made me realize that such a catch would probably need to related to the collet threads, which seems unlikely. Perhaps there is some option at the left end of the spindle to lock (and release) the hand wheel assembly to the spindle. It works very well like it is, but is annoying to have to keep tightening it. If anybody builds one, consider the issue in advance.
 

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#13
I've been having a bit of a think about this over the last few weeks.

My thoughts now are to modify a Grizzly lever operated collet closer but to do this I'll need to either modify or make the 5C business end.

As it happens I have acquired a nice 5" lump of 17/4 PH steel. I am not 100% sure on it's condition however I'm assuming it's in the annealed form. I imagine that if this was aged it would be a good choice but was wondering if anyone with a little more experience could comment. I did think about using a lower grade of steel and fitting a MT to 5C adaptor but I figured that machining the 5C profile into the chuck on the machine would ensure concentricity to the lathes axis.
 

MrWhoopee

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
493
Likes
314
#14
I've been having a bit of a think about this over the last few weeks.

My thoughts now are to modify a Grizzly lever operated collet closer but to do this I'll need to either modify or make the 5C business end.

As it happens I have acquired a nice 5" lump of 17/4 PH steel. I am not 100% sure on it's condition however I'm assuming it's in the annealed form. I imagine that if this was aged it would be a good choice but was wondering if anyone with a little more experience could comment. I did think about using a lower grade of steel and fitting a MT to 5C adaptor but I figured that machining the 5C profile into the chuck on the machine would ensure concentricity to the lathes axis.
17-4 PH is not that hard in any of its conditions. It has excellent strength, toughness and corrosion resistance, but the hardness will not get above Rc 44 (condition H900). The nose piece for a collet closer needs to be about as hard as the collets, in the range of Rc 58-60 (maybe even higher). Oil hardening or air hardening tool steel would be ideal. Regardless, it will need to be ground after heat treating. Anything less will wear fairly quickly. Fretting and galling may also be problems with 17-4.
 

MrWhoopee

H-M Supporter - Silver Member
H-M Supporter - Silver Member ($10)
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
493
Likes
314
#15
I am having one problem with the drawbar collet closer I built. The needle thrust bearings make it smooth and easy to tighten the work in the collet. However, they also have much less static friction, so they tend to let the setup loosen a bit each time the spindle is started, due to the inertia at rest of the hand wheel/drawbar assembly.
Bob,
Things you've probably thought of....
Further reducing the mass of the handwheel (thin the web, drill it out) will help. If you have a VFD, can you reduce the rate of acceleration? If you have a foot-brake, stomp it hard to re-tighten. Replace the needle roller bearing with something with more drag. Add some sort of an adjustable drag that will prevent unintentional loosening but allow intentional loosening. Scrap the handwheel and build a lever type (you need a new project, right?)

Lever type collet closers usually have some sort of positive lock that prevents loosening, but that's not practical with a handwheel.
 

SamI

Active Member
Registered
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
73
Likes
56
#16
17-4 PH is not that hard in any of its conditions. It has excellent strength, toughness and corrosion resistance, but the hardness will not get above Rc 44 (condition H900). The nose piece for a collet closer needs to be about as hard as the collets, in the range of Rc 58-60 (maybe even higher). Oil hardening or air hardening tool steel would be ideal. Regardless, it will need to be ground after heat treating. Anything less will wear fairly quickly. Fretting and galling may also be problems with 17-4.
Thank you for your advice. I suppose that rules out making one at home then unless I get some sort of an adapter. Now I’m going to have to find something else to do with a whopping great lump of steel! :grin: I do have another chunk of miscellaneous steel (I suspect 8630) which may be better suited if I’m going down the adapter route.

Failing that I’ll have to try and find a chuck designed for a drawbar. I’m sure they exist I’ve just not come accross any yet.

And for information, I had considered getting an adaptor straight into the spindle however without modifying the leadscrew covers the carriage won’t get closer enough to the headstock for short work.

Thanks again,

Sam
 
[6]
[5] [7]
Top