shop heater what are you using

My 24x16 garage is not insulated. This is the first year I have really wanted to be out-new mini mill. I tried a few different heaters and found the 60,000 btu propane space heater,torpedo type, does the best. I will be insulating before next winter.
 
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Ray C does that heater not vented outside cause moisture problems. Thanks for answers so far. Hate to say that I will have to stop project for short time pulled muscle in shoulder while working on garage transition to shop. what a PIA.
 
Ray C said:
Holy smokes.... How big is the place? Is it insulated?

Ray
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Ya Ray, the main shop is 40x50 with 16ft ceiling. Big Big problem a customer with an emergency and the heat cost more that the part?
Winter means no landscapers or farmers breakin stuff. No snow Yet, so no welding. My makeup I was born with; I only last so long in
the house and (winter means prison) I just have to go up there. Our original shop, about 20x 28 or 30 now is the nest of my Model T
Ford. So thats like my man cave. small freebe furnace run on a jug of diesel, takes about 20min up to 70*. Thats my makeup Ray,
I write this Sunday already got cabin fever at 9:30 am. solution I shall put a leash on cat go to my Model T Haven man cave, cat goes in
the Ford to sleep I starre at it 'the Ford" and "that" emptys my stress. More so, would be nice to move machine shop back, BUT over the
years we grew into very heavy metal, and the ole wood floors just wont cut it. Then all said and done fire it up and warmed up, Ricardo
relocates himself to the warmth on the hood & goes asleep again. And for 'those people', No I dont drive with a cat on hood, and No 2
dont go anywhere without his leash strapped to me, and I should have said the car was hot outside then put inside, then shut door then
turn on heat.. Dont care if I got monoxsided but not my cat.
gettin old aint it well its just 'me'.........................................................

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FWest said:
My 24x16 garage is not insulated. This is the first year I have really wanted to be out-new mini mill. I tried a few different heaters and found the 60,000 btu propane space heater,torpedo type, does the best. I will be insulating before next winter.
Click to expand...

I have noted in the past that propane fired anything causes moisture swetting? is that true ?
 
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My background before retiring was HVAC I'm just going to give some basics here: heating is btuh, Btu per hour, it reacts the same no matter what fuel you use depending on how much your sending up the stack % efficiency. Most modern heating equipment is 80% + if vented in metal pipe and 90% plus if vented in PVC pipe. Electric is 100% efficient.

to find the difference in operating costs you would divide the ((Heat loss of the building BTUH) / BTUs per gallon etc.)/% efficiency this would give you Gallons etc. of fuel per hour. The heat loss is calculated using the temp difference between inside temp desired and normal year coldest for you area. I live in eastern washington and our coldest teme for design is +2 F. What the formula above is going to give you is The amount of fuel you would use at +2 F outside.

Heat is transfered in 2 different methods one is heating the air and then heating the objects. Because the objects you are working on are on the floor and the heat rises most of the heat is high in the room This form of heat is most expensive due to the lost heat high in the room. It also is slower to get comfortable if the temp is allowed to go down and come backup because the equipment itself gets cold.


The second common form of heating is radient or infra-red, it heats objects not the air, it is a line of sight heat source. there are 2 forms of radient heat commonly used, High intensity, with the heat source in the 800+ temp range. these infra-red heaters provide the fastest temp change on the equipment. 1/2hr between startup and operational temps.going through a 20 degree temp change. You, the machine, and the tools are warm as long as they are where they can see the heater. In an uninsulated envirnment or intermitant use, this is the cheapest form of heating you can use. It does need a high 10+ cieling hieght, the air temp is slow to come up so your not paying to heat space and materials that you are not using.

This type also is available in smaller units that are mounted on top of a propane tank, these do not have thermostats so you do end up messing with them but they are wonderful for spot heat such as one machine.

The third type is radient floor heighting you have piping in the floor that up to 100 degree water is pumped through heating the floor and the objects radiently. It is a very stable heat source and economical IF you are keeping the temp the same all the time. Unless you mapped the installed piping locations( not the contractors or archetcts prints) you run a risk of breaking piping drilling and mounting equipment to the floor.

bottom line is if your well insulated most any form will work ok and not break you up in business. If your shop isn't well insulated or the doors are frequently opened infra-re is your best bet. also remember that you have an ignition source from any open flame so be careful when using solvents fuels etc.
 
Shop is topside of an out building. 150 year old structure, various insulation types, all 4 surfaces topside. Have some O.C. glass, but do not like it. Mice, and other critters, think it is *****in nesting material. Cellotex 2 side foil is, I think, best. Heater is a Model 55 Toyostove running on K1. Heats wicked good. Keep at min temp (55 degrees) that the Toyostove provides. Location is coastal Maine. Usage was about 50 gal/month, when I was up there 365.
Cheers, Jonathan
 
GK1918 said:
I have noted in the past that propane fired anything causes moisture swetting? is that true ?
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Any combustion heater that isn't vented outside puts moisture in the air. This includes all portable heaters and the so-called "vent free" propane heaters. In theory, burning propane produces only CO2 and water vapor. The water vapor alone can be a problem (nobody likes rusty tools), but the real danger is that unvented heaters are also burning anything else that's in the air... dust, fumes, etc., and no telling what those combustion products are, or what they do to your lungs. I wouldn't put an unvented heater in my house or my shop.

A used furnace can be an excellent choice for a shop, if you have the means to properly vent it outside. An old mobile home furnace is especially convenient. My shop (a 2 car garage) is heated by an old oil furnace (fed from a 55 gallon drum) that a friend removed than the DWH coil went. I have it plumbed to an old car radiator with a fan blowing through it. Heats the garage from way below freezing to comfortable in an hour or less (overkill is good for a shop that's not heated all the time).
 
In my own experiences, I have not noticed any more/less humidity as compared to the kerosene heater I had before. Matter of fact, since propane is cheaper to run, I now leave the shop heated 24x7 and since the temperature does not swing up/down, I get a lot less condensation than before. It's the daily hot/cold cycles that lead to condensation. I have no rust problems at all.

As mentioned by another contributor, yes, any time you have an open flame, dust or oil fumes will create some smells. I minimize as much as possible using anything objectionable and I also open the overhead for a few moments every now and then. Propane was a big improvement over kerosene -that's for sure. Also, to be on the safe side, I have both smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in the garage. I test them regularly and neither has ever triggered an alarm while working back there.


Ray
 
Have you considered an Edenpure or similar ceramic heater. With a small well insulated shop they might just do the job for you and ours is very economical to run. We use it in the living room and it saves us a bundle on propane in our old farm house.
 
I have been very happy with my Nodine ceiling mount propane heater. Zero floor space footprint is a plus. Shop is 24x26x8. Not super insulated, but is "well" insulated. 100 gallon propane tank (about $250), lasts me most of the heating season, keeping the temp about 45 degrees 24/7 and a comfortable 68 or so when working. My nodine was a craigs list find and is sized quite a bit larger then spec. which I think is a good idea, it heats up fast. about 20 minutes. My only gripe is that the concrete floor stays cool for ever. And the 16ft. overhead door lacks some insulating value. Hope this helps, Google Nodine heaters and check them out. Good Luck!
 
Back to my reply in number #13. A test in the ole former shop. We all know, fact all Model T Fords run at pretty near boiling its a
thermosypon systom. For the fun of it, I piped the tail pipe out side. Next I measure fuel tank (a stick) I run the car for a hour. Next I am
able to take of my coat off - outside 23 degrees, inside it went up to around 55 degrees. I measure the fuel with a stick, same thing.
Next I run it another hour, now im knicking on 70 degrees. Now thats two hours of run time. I stick the tank again and I could not measure
the drop, maybe with a mic . Now if I sticked the furnace tank I could measure that with a yard stick. They say these "Ts" will do 25
to 35 Miles per gal, i dont know. But I do know I'm thinking it only burned a couple quarts of gas. I am seeing or feeling all that cast iron
plus the hot muffer, tail pipe, fan blowing 200 degree air. I think I'll see my junkyard buddie for a late 4 banger rice burner, build a box
out side two radiators inside with 110vt fans, and "lets see". My old Ford is comming up with (I think) 1.5 gal of gas in 8 hrs v/s 8 gals
of furnace fuel with a 1.00 an hour burner nozzel. more test to follow.

this is a redneck test ; also that block takes a long time to cool down inbetween starts.......it does not run constantly either
 
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