SMAW and MIG

[woodchucker]

I haven’t used a stick welder in a long time.
After playing around yesterday, I am reminded how versatile this method can be and the penetration is significant.
I’m not saying I know what I’m doing but running a bead with stick next to mig makes me ask myself why I don’t use stick more often.
In High school all we had was oxy acetylene and stick. This was the early 70’s. I don’t think I learned how to mig weld until about ten years ago.
Drag out your old stick welder and blow the dust off, just for fun.

I bet you can tell which is which.

those are nice beads Jeff, don't know if you practiced a bunch before laying those, but they are wayyyy better than my welds.

 

[GeneT45]

This is timely. I have a small project where I have been considering stick (unpracticed for ~25 years) in lieu of mig (regular use). This is probably the push I need. I'm still going to stick a couple coupons together before tackling the real work, but thanks for the motivation!

GsT

 

[Flynth]

What about a plasma cutter for gouging? Never tried it though.
I have a Hypertherm Powermax45 XP. It has a section on gouging in the manual.
I see there is a gouging mode on the control console.
Anybody tried it?

I have a 45 amp cheap Chinese plasma cutter (max capacity advertised as half inch plate) and I did both plasma gouging and arc air gouging with my large 350 amp Mig/stick. It is true arc air gouging is loud as hell, it throws hot slag and it needs a very powerful machine(my 350 amp 3 phase mig/stick machine was maxed out) as well as a big air compressor (and electricity supply when the compressor comes on as you gouge). Still, for someone liking the look of it it is fun

You also need full leather protection, apron, trousers, sleeves, and neck protection for air arc gouging with medium amps (medium is 350A, I believe arc gouging settings go up to 600 amps in my electrode holder manual).

Coming back to more practical stuff (plasma). Some plasma cutters have special consumables for gouging which allow you quite a bit of process control which is very good. My plasma cutter doesn't. I use the same nozzles etc as for cutting which means the plasma stream is quite narrow and it requires quite a bit of skill initially to angle it correctly.

I'll use plasma gouging when I need to gouge something precisely. For example removing a small weld. It is great for thinner materials (quarter inch and under). Arc air gouging is great if you have to disassemble an inch thick piece of plate from another one you picked up at the scrap yard. I would use it instead of oxy-acetylene cutting torch.

This is timely. I have a small project where I have been considering stick (unpracticed for ~25 years) in lieu of mig (regular use). This is probably the push I need. I'm still going to stick a couple coupons together before tackling the real work, but thanks for the motivation!

GsT

One more time I'll use stick over my favourite mig is when access is very difficult. For example if I have to weld stuff on the bottom of a 4in deep hole, or through a small opening.

Another comment about MIG worth making these days is that argon gas has become really expensive due to it coming from Ukraine mostly (at least here in Europe). Even before the war I already started using straight CO2 on one of my machines (the big 350 amp mig/stick welder). And I would like to recommended CO2 to anyone. This gas is dirt cheap! A big bottle will last you forever. However if you have a big welder that consumes a lot if gas and you want to weld continously you need a gas heater or your regulator will freeze. I got one for $20 and my welder has a low voltage power supply for it. Another advantage of CO2 is that it welds rusty, oxidised and with mill scale material without even noticing. But you can't do spray transfer with co2, and your usual settings will need tweaking. It is worth it IMO. If you weld rusty stuff with straight co2 you will have what looks like a little red/yellowish slag on top of some welds. It comes of with a wire wheel, or an air needle hammer if you care about it.

There are also dual shield wires witch both have a flux core and require a shielding gas(sometimes CO2). I have a spool of such wire, but the project I bought it for (a diy 100ton press with lots of 1in thick metal to weld) is on hold at the moment. One advantage of such wire is speed, the other deep penetration and strength for thick structural welds.

 

[pontiac428]

If you can put 250 amps into it, you can run spray transfer deposition mode with FCAW-G. You need 1% O2 in addition to your 75/25 gas. This is what I use for thick structural when I can. I say when I can, because it's not an easy process to run vertical or overhead, but neither is any form of SMAW really. It produces superbly smooth, thick welds with maximum penetration, much cleaner than stick too.

 

[Janderso]

those are nice beads Jeff, don't know if you practiced a bunch before laying those, but they are wayyyy better than my welds.

Thanks, if you look close I'm undercutting a bit on the high side with stick welding. Practice? not really.
I do enough mig welding to keep in practice

 

[Janderso]

If you can put 250 amps into it, you can run spray transfer deposition mode with FCAW-G. You need 1% O2 in addition to your 75/25 gas. This is what I use for thick structural when I can. I say when I can, because it's not an easy process to run vertical or overhead, but neither is any form of SMAW really. It produces superbly smooth, thick welds with maximum penetration, much cleaner than stick too.

Spray transfer is so cool. Beautiful welds too!!
My machine can't handle it, I've tried. Maybe with a different gas but I don't think I can get enough amps put through. =220

 

[Janderso]

This is timely. I have a small project where I have been considering stick (unpracticed for ~25 years) in lieu of mig (regular use). This is probably the push I need. I'm still going to stick a couple coupons together before tackling the real work, but thanks for the motivation!

GsT

I think if you set up the machine right and you use 7018 you'll be surprised about the results. For me it was much easier than I remember.
I don't know what rod we had back in the 70's in High school or at the dealership in the 80's but arc welding was just ugly for me.

 

[GeneT45]

I think if you set up the machine right and you use 7018 you'll be surprised about the results. For me it was much easier than I remember.
I don't know what rod we had back in the 70's in High school or at the dealership in the 80's but arc welding was just ugly for me.

In my single formal welding class we used 6010 almost exclusively. But, our instructor did let us try 7018 ("Farm Rod") just so we knew what we were missing...
As it turns out I have 6011 and 7018 on hand, because I've been meaning to brush up on 'stick'. I may try the former, but will probably use the latter. Thanks again for the kick in the rear!

GsT

 

[erikmannie]

I love stick welding, & I try to make everything happen with only 6010 and 7018. One of my machines, a Miller Thunderbolt 210, doesn’t have enough oomph (open circuit voltage) to run 6010.

My preference is 6010 for a root pass and 7018 for a hot, fill or cap pass.

I only buy Lincoln Electric 5P+ (6010) and Excalibur MR (7018) in 3/32”, 1/8”and 5/32” sizes. Also, I invested in a *Lincoln* rod oven (only used for the 7018) because I only buy Lincoln brand 7018.

One huge benefit of stick welding is that you don’t need shielding gas. I don’t always have the time and money to buy more gas.

Some random SMAW tips:

(1) If you have a problem sticking the rod, try a fresh rod, a rod fresh out of the rod oven (only applies to low hydrogen rods (e.g. 7018)), turn up the Amps and/or preheat the material.

(2) I use DCEP for all my stick welding. This makes it easy for me: “If I am stick welding, then the machine is set to DCEP”.

(3) I like 220V machines, a tight arc, Amps on the high side, and thick leads (in order to minimize resistance).

(4) I *don’t* make it a point to get every penny’s worth out of the stick electrodes. When I used to do this, I would burn the plastic tips on the stinger a little.

I only use GMAW when I am either in a hurry or if it is a **very** small job. For thin steel, I use oxyacetylene. To it’s credit, GMAW is very fast.

 

[erikmannie]

I assert that the following is one of life’s greatest pleasures: welding 6”-10” Sch 40 black pipe with a 6010 root, and weld the rest out with 7018. I use a rollout wheel, 3/32” landing, 37-1/2° bevel angle, 3/32” 6010 and 1/8” 7018. I take the time to feather the tacks and grind down the root. This is super fun!