Thoughts on an Eisen 1236GH vs. a Grizzly G9036 (or KentKLS1340a)

[frostheave]

Mark,

There's currently not much info available on that lathe. If you do end up buying the Eisen 12x36, I would REALLY appreciate it if you could post pictures and a review once it arrives. Good Luck!

Bob

 

[nickmckinney]

I too looked at both the PM1340GT and the Eisen 1236, they seem to be sister machines from the same factory. I went through the same lathe hunt myself recently and posted what I found here:

http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php?t=23470

There are pros and cons to every company selling machines IMHO. PM does not stock and its hard to reach Matt, Eisen who knows anything as I have never heard of anyone with one, Grizzly can cheap out on what you don't see, MSC charges double the rest, etc. Its frickin tough with lathes, I found bigger mills like 9x49 and 10x54 are a dime a dozen to find easily new and in stock everywhere, but new lathes are a biach.

 

[Dog]

I looked at the Eisen 12x36 and one thing I did not like about it was you had to change a belt to get into the other speed range. (high or low speed range) And, that belt was a pain to change. The PMgt machines may or may not be the same way, not sure about that. I much prefer just throwing a lever on the front of the headstock to get in high or low range.

 

[mksj]

The 1236GH, PM1340GT and PM1236 require a belt change for the high low speed ranges. Yes would prefer this to be a gear change, but it comes down to cost/space of doing this by another set of gears. Wold not be required if one adds a VFD drive.

 

[Ray C]

The 1236GH, PM1340GT and PM1236 require a belt change for the high low speed ranges. Yes would prefer this to be a gear change, but it comes down to cost/space of doing this by another set of gears. Wold not be required if one adds a VFD drive.

Precisely. I have a two step pulley arrangement on my 1236 and just leave it at the higher ratio because I almost always use carbide cutters which require higher SFMs. When I need an intermediate speed not available on the dial, I twist the knob on the VFD. -Problem solved.

FWIW, if you want a lathe fully adjustable through dial settings, be prepared to spend a good bit more money.


Ray

 

[Dog]

Precisely. I have a two step pulley arrangement on my 1236 and just leave it at the higher ratio because I almost always use carbide cutters which require higher SFMs. When I need an intermediate speed not available on the dial, I twist the knob on the VFD. -Problem solved.

FWIW, if you want a lathe fully adjustable through dial settings, be prepared to spend a good bit more money.


Ray

If you don't mind going to the trouble of installing a VFD/3 phase motor that would definitely solve the issue, but I do believe there are quite a few low cost lathes that have the high and low ranges available through a lever on the front of the lathe. The Grizzly G4003 for instance.

 

[Bob Korves]

I have a Kent KLS-1340a that was about 5 years old when I got it, but in new condition. It was owned by a custom plumbing company. It had very few fine brass chips on it when I got it, and the Cosmoline had never been removed. It was grimy from sitting unused in a corner. It came with all the accessories and two brazed carbide tools. Only one had ever been used, incorrectly. I assume that nobody really knew how to run it so it never got used.

I cleaned it up, oiled and adjusted everything, checked and tightened all the bolts, leveled it, and changed the oil. I also bought a Phase II QC tool post to replace the stock 4 way. The lathe works just fine, no complaints. I did call Kent USA in Southern California a couple times and they were very helpful and knowledgeable about their product. They have parts in stock for it. They mostly sell big industrial machinery.

ALL these import lathes are not plug and play by any means, and I probably had 20 hours into getting mine ready for service. That might sound like a lot, but it is far less than getting old American iron ready to go after decades of wear, abuse, and corrosion, unless you can find one that has been rehabbed by someone who knew what they were doing...
-Bob Korves

 

[nickmckinney]

My cheap Enco 13x40 Chinese had the HI/LO on the front. I never knew these didn't, that would have been a disappointment to me to be honest. I switch HI/LO all the time with what I do.

 

[mksj]

I did call Kent USA in Southern California a couple times and they were very helpful and knowledgeable about their product. They have parts in stock for it. They mostly sell big industrial machinery.

I did find this the case with Eisen, Kent and Grizzly (all who I have previously dealt with); they are very responsive/competent and all carry many parts in stock. I have given up on QMT, years ago I also tried to buy a mill and after months of waiting gave up. Tried again and nada. Companies that sell big equipment, I think the profit margin and hassle factor with selling small lathes/machinery is probably more trouble than it is worth. So I sympathize with them for having to put up with us.

The discussion of high low gearing is a bit relative to the speed range and number of speeds. The 1236GH and 1340GT do have a high low range, but they are 2x3 (and another x2 with a pulley change) where something like the G4003G is a 3x3. But I agree that a belt change is a PTA, and what is worse, is that the pulley change speed ranges overlap by 50%. So you would need to do belt changes to step down or up to the next speed in the overlapping range. At a minimum, you would be better off with a 2 speed motor (much cheaper than a VFD set-up).

The VFD motor set-up is not as simple as buying any 3 phase motor and slapping a VFD to it. As far as I have been informed, standard 3 phase motors are fine at 230V with a VFD (voltage spikes from a VFD are not an issue), but the horsepower is decreased with decreasing Hz/rpm. If you oversize the motor for low speed, you are going to break something at 60Hz(100% speed). Ideally you need an inverter/vector motor which have a rated Hz, voltage and RPM, but when run with a VFD have a much higher Hz rating/max RPM. So something like a 2Hp Black Max Y540 Vector Duty motor has a rated RPM of 1160@60Hz, and will maintain 2Hp to RPM of 2315@120Hz and has a max RPM of 5400 (the Black Max Y551 Vector Duty motor has a rated RPM of 1750@60Hz, and maintains full Hp rating to 3500+). These type of inverter/vector duty motors also maintain very high torque ratings at lower speeds. So you have a very wide effective operating speed range, and probably why many factory lathes with VFDs have 2 geared manual speed ranges. Using a fan cooled non-inveter 3 phase motor, may result in poor performance at low speeds, overheat and stall out with overloading the VFD. So as Ray mentioned, you need to spend a bit to get something that will work correctly and is matched to your set-up.

 

[Jawn]

Bump.

I've been watching this thread, I was wondering if you'd gotten a lathe... specifically I was hoping for impressions on the Eisen 1236GH, if you'd gone that route. Not sure I can justify spending that much starting out, but it does look like it ticks all the right boxes.