Timken Spindle Bearings?

[mikey]

I was the Industrial Services Manager for FAG Bearings in a previous life.

Ah, good to know. I have FAG bearings in my lathe and mill, the latter with XL bearings. When given a choice, I always go with FAG because of their consistent quality.

 

[Ischgl99]

Ah, good to know. I have FAG bearings in my lathe and mill, the latter with XL bearings. When given a choice, I always go with FAG because of their consistent quality.

FAG makes excellent products and the X-Life line is a nice step up. I saw some test results comparing the steel they use to the second tier manufacturers and it was amazing the difference. That and the improved manufacturing process is why they are able to offer X-Life quality bearings. I won’t intentionally buy any other brand.

 

[mikey]

FAG makes excellent products and the X-Life line is a nice step up. I saw some test results comparing the steel they use to the second tier manufacturers and it was amazing the difference. That and the improved manufacturing process is why they are able to offer X-Life quality bearings. I won’t intentionally buy any other brand.

Yeah, their honing process is so good that no break in is required. More importantly, my mill has just under 0.0001" TIR because of those bearings so for me, I will also stick with FAG.

 

[Tim9]

Well, thanks guys, a lot of info! As far as my ability to pay for bearings, I would get the better bearings for a hundred dollar or so increase in price. I probably would buy a bearing set of the same grade. But , I am not spending crazy money for a quarter of a thousand. I don’t need that degree of precision . Most of my stuff is just playing and building things where +or- .005 would work. When at the production machine shop,I learned my trade and worked at for a couple of years in the previous century, most of our tolerances were + - .005. But when doing the job on my lathe , I would like the most bang for my buck.
As for determining why I need bearings, it is mostly sound. Most lathes in good shape have a very pleasing “ whirr” . My lathe has a sound and ”feel” that I have come to associate with pitted bearings. It sounds like the spindle bearings to me. But I know sound can transfer and other things could cause the sound. I was a professional mechanic for most of my life and have chased “ sounds” many times. On my Clausing 6307 the top of the gear box comes off real easy and when I get to the point of addressing this problem, my first step will be removing the lid and a close inspection.
Again thanks, guys! I am amazed with the knowledge you guys have!




Bones

Pitted bearings will deposit metal bits in your crankcase. If the bearings are bad...or the races are pitted, my experience has been that under a load and at high speed the bearings start to flake little pieces of metal off. And then that metal ends up in your crankcase. I seriously think that if your bearings are bad then you are going to have lots of little metal flakes in your crankcase. Check that. If you don’t have any, then hold off buying/changing your bearings.

Clausing lathes are a bit noisy . Especially if there’s a countershaft with the clutch/brake.
FWIW... is the noise the same when you run the lathe with that forward / Reverse lever in the neutral position. I ask this because there’s no doubt mine has more noise when my quick change gear box is running. In neutral, I think that’s out of the loop.

I too was thinking I had bad spindle bearings. But after reading a lot of threads from PM posted by some guys much more experienced than I... I was left with the impression that as long as the lathe wasn’t damaged and oil levels kept proper... lathe spindle bearings just don’t go bad that often. Now.... I think things are different on a mill spindle. They go bad much more often. But that’s a different animal. A lathe has a constant bath of oil. That’s a very good design. Kind of like a manual transmission. They hold up well if they don’t leak too.

Plus...we are talking pretty big roller bearings in a lathes spindle. Also...make sure your bearings in your motor aren’t bad. Now those were screaming bad in my lathe. Changed them and it’s been much better going on 3 years now.

by the way Boneyard. Changing the oil in the Clausing leaves a little oil in the bottom of the crankcase. So,,, any metal stays there even if you drain and refill . The drain plug is on the side. Not the bottom of the crankcase. So, any metal flaking off bearings is going to still be at the bottom of your crankcase. And another thing. My lathe sat outside in the weather a while. There wasn’t any rust or water in mine. That’s why I am fairly confident that I don’t need bearings. Do yourself a favor and use a stethoscope to check everything beforehand.

 

[Ken226]

@boneyard51

Tim9 addressed some very important points in his post above.

So far, most of us have answered your questions as-asked, assuming that your bearings are indeed in need of attention.

However, if you haven't actually measured your spindle runout, or pulled the headstock cover / bearing caps for inspection, you should most definitely do so before dropping $$$ on parts that you may not need.

Get one of those telescopic magnetic dropped-bolt picker upper things, and dip it down to the bottom of your oil, fish around and see how much and what kind of metal particles come up with it.

Perhaps you just need to adjust the preload. I've purchased brand-new lathes that had very loose bearings. Run @ 2000rpm for half an hour, with not a single degree° of temperature increase, and measureable spindle end play. I've several times reduced spindle runout by several thousandths with just a couple degrees rotation of the preload nut.

Also, I recently replaced my electric motor bearings with a set of 20$ Timkens and 75% of the lathes mechanical noise disappeared. I created a post about that somewhere on here.

I also added a gasket between the motor mount and bed, using a thin sheet of gasket material from auto-zone, and it made a noticeable difference as well. I was shocked at how much difference these seemingly insignificant things made.

Don't start replacing things until you've actually checked them.

 

[boneyard51]

Thanks guys! All good points! The lathe is currently at the ranch shop and I am making room in my detached garage at my residence for it. So I really don’t have hands on it yet. I only used it a couple of times a few years ago, and remember some noise in the headstock area. My first step will be with the sethoscope. That will give me direction. Then I will inspect the motor and belt. Next will be draining the oil after running a magnet around in the floor of the gear box. Then cleaning the gear box and inspecting the gears and bearings. Next I will run the lathe without the top or oil and again use the stethoscope to pin point the noise, if it is still there.

Only after I have determined that I have compromised bearing will I replace them. I always kinda plan ahead on these projects, that‘s where I found an old Clausing price sheet that priced the bearings over $1000! That ain’t going to happen in my lathe! Lol
That’s why I was asking about these bearings. My machining is mainly just playing around, building stuff for my pleasure. Most of my projects don’t require extremely close tolerances. I have determined from the info you guys have given me , that the bearings are just common tapered bearings, but the ones in the lathe are held to a closer tolerance. And that there are several steps in that tolerance and is reflected in price! There will be choices in my future! Thanks







Bones

 

[Ken226]

I got my stand back from the powdercoater today. Got it levelled up, and made a couple adjustments to the headstock alignment and tailstock alignment.

After getting it levelled, I had .005" of taper on an 8" test bar. After an hour of loosening/tightening various headstock screws and adjusters I got it down to .0002" over 8".

Then, had to bump the tailstock over. Had .003" taper on a 40" test bar between centers.

Before:



After:

 

[Tim9]

Find yourself the part numbers for your bearings. Preferably Timken and then cross that to the most common brand you think your lathe uses. Then just keep an eye out on EBay. That’s what I did for my Burke Millrite. Got pretty lucky... think I spent @ 225.00 for 2 precision bearings and two precision races. Someone had put regular wheel bearings in my mill. Still not perfect and I tried grinding the R-8 taper. Next I’m going to try to hard turn it. I think I’m still at about 1-1/2 thousands out.
anyway...Precision bearings show up on EBay often.

 

[boneyard51]

Find yourself the part numbers for your bearings. Preferably Timken and then cross that to the most common brand you think your lathe uses. Then just keep an eye out on EBay. That’s what I did for my Burke Millrite. Got pretty lucky... think I spent @ 225.00 for 2 precision bearings and two precision races. Someone had put regular wheel bearings in my mill. Still not perfect and I tried grinding the R-8 taper. Next I’m going to try to hard turn it. I think I’m still at about 1-1/2 thousands out.
anyway...Precision bearings show up on EBay often.

Ok, will do! The lathe is still at the ranch and here in Oklahoma we have been having 15 below zero weather with ten inches of snow. So... things have slowed to a stand still around here!





Bones

 

[G-ManBart]

Changing the oil in the Clausing leaves a little oil in the bottom of the crankcase. So,,, any metal stays there even if you drain and refill . The drain plug is on the side. Not the bottom of the crankcase. So, any metal flaking off bearings is going to still be at the bottom of your crankcase.

I'm not sure if it varies with model, but I just drained the oil in the crankcase on my Clausing 6913. It has a small depressed sump area close to the drain to catch shavings/debris. I used a little lube pump normally meant for attaching to containers and pumping into gearboxes and differentials...I just stuck the suction tube in that sump and it pulled the oil out nicely. I only say that as someone might not notice if they just drained the oil and refilled without looking closely.