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[4]

Tool Room Grinder Wheel Source/options for 6x1x4?

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Janderso

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#1
Hi,
I just received my new Grizzly Heavy Duty H7762, Tool Room Grinder.
I assumed right out of the gate I would need to make some corrections to these grinders.
I plan on adding a diamond wheel and a quality round grinding wheel with this mounting system.
The backing plates and the abrasive on these are so out of true it's a joke. I expected it.
Where can I purchase quality options?
6 X 1 X 4. 3,450 RPM
Please see pic.
Thank you for your help
 

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Bob Korves

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Jeff, does the grinder run smoothly, without vibration?
 

kd4gij

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#4
MSC, Travers, And Shars to name a few
 

Bob Korves

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Those wheels are not very good. They are not "green wheels (silicon carbide)", they are "painted green wheels." They work, after a fashion, but not how a silicon carbide wheel is supposed to on carbide tools. Under the green paint, the wheel is gray. They do cut HSS, slowly and not very well. They do grind carbide, slowly and with a poor finish. I added a Shars p/n 505-3363 150 grit 100% concentration diamond wheel to my HF grinder, and it fits poorly, the grinder and the wheel have different mounting bolt circle diameters. Not sure which one is correct, if either are. The Shars wheel has countersunk holes compared to flat bottom holes on the HF wheels. I had to replace the fasteners with countersunk screws and "dial in" the wheel when mounting it to try to get it to run true, which it still does not completely do. At some point I will machine a new additional bolt circle on the Shars wheel to fit it to the grinder. The grinder ran glass smooth with the wheels it came with, and also with the one wheel removed before mounting the Shars wheel. I have no issues at all with the grinder except for the wheels and the fit and finish of the table trunnions, which had to be deburred and smoothed, with a tiny bit of metal removed here and there. After that, they work fine.
 

pineyfolks

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Most of the 6" diamond ones I see listed have a 1 1/4 bore. You may have to machine a bushing.
 

Bob Korves

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Most of the 6" diamond ones I see listed have a 1 1/4 bore. You may have to machine a bushing.
The hubs on the HF grinder measure 1.250". The Shars wheel has a bigger opening than that by .005 to .010" (guessing, it is currently installed.) I suppose I could bore out the wheel opening and make a thin shim ring to try to locate the diamond wheel. I thought of that while installing the wheel, but did not do it at that point. At any rate, the bolt pattern will also need to be corrected. IMO, Shars diamond wheels are just not very well made. I lucked out with the other Shars diamond wheel I use for making precision ground flat stones, but everybody else I heard from with the same wheel were all having big runout numbers with the Shars wheel. Mine came with .001" runout, which was fairly easily dressed round. It is not trivial to make a resin bond diamond wheel run dead true, square, and flat on the cutting face -- and keep it that way.
 
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pineyfolks

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Bob, I wasn't sure if the hf grinder had a standard 1 1/4 arbor. Good to know. You can't always be sure about hf.
 

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As bob said those wheels r a standard bench grinder composition. The mounting style is a common type just type carbide grinder wheel. I also had a different type of bolt mounting on my diamond wheels bought from cdco. They are tapered countersunk holes. Which was fine because it locates the wheel better than a through hole. I did order different styles of wheels for peripheral use on a bench grinder. Center hole was metric like 32mm maybe. Had to make a bushing. The wheels from China were the same quality as the ones from cdco and for only ten bucks a pc and two weeks wait.
 

Janderso

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Jeff, does the grinder run smoothly, without vibration?
As I am eating my breakfast this morning, I went to the shop, turned on the grinder and determined pretty smooth. The wheel on the right has a significant amount of lateral runout visible on the inside of the backing plate. The left side is much better.
Have you seen, “ Turn Wright Machine’s” video on this subject?
He determined the bulk of the runout is due to the bushings between the shielded bearing and the backing plate. It looks like they took a piece of conduit with a band saw and called it good.
I will replace the right wheel with a diamond, thank you for the Sharks reference Bob.
I think the left one will be fine after it is dressed. No, they are not of good quality.
Thanks to all.
Jeff
 

Bob Korves

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The Turn Wright Machine video is quite old. It may not be as relevant on a newer production grinder. We have to remember that Chinese import tools and machines are often not ready for use as received, but rather assembled for shipment "kits" that look like what we want to end up with. We choose them for the desirable low pricing, and put our own sweat equity into making them perform like we want them to. That is simply reality, not a plug or a put down. Some come ready for use, others need considerable work to meet our personal needs, we roll the dice. It is not really fair to choose by only considering cost and then complain that they are not the equal of an expensive and high quality machine. Also remember that hobby machinists quite often are required to adjust and repair their equipment. We are usually the riggers and the maintenance department as well as the machinist turning the knobs.
 

Janderso

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You know Bob, I did not look at the date on the video.
I agree with you about the Chinese products. We love the prices and I am learning we roll the dice.
I can work with this grinder, it will work out fine. I will do what I can to reduce the runout.
I bet the painted green wheel on the left side will clean up after I dress it. I have a good quality diamond point dressing tool.
Thanks as always.
 

Cadillac

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The video from fenner is still relevant. It shows every aspect of balancing the grinder. Very informative just needs to be applied to your design.
When I received mine it was used but in good shape. After watching the inspection of his grinder it showed what challenges were ahead of me. Luckily mine had minimal runout. But one thing that had bothered me was the original owner either took the keys out of the shaft or they didn't put them in originally. I don't see the second option there is a key way in the shaft and a slot in wheel hubs for key way. When I dressed the wheel I did do the OD and the face just so it runs as smooth as possible. I was told you should not grind on the OD of these types of wheels only the face. I'm guilty for a light touch up but no hoggin.
 

Bob Korves

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The video from fenner is still relevant.
The video Keith put up was well done and gave him a chance to vent his frustrations with getting it working up to his standards. What changes over time and sometimes across different assembly plants is the specific stuff they cheap out on. Old issues sometimes get upgraded, and other new ones appear. The issues Keith found with his grinder may well be different than the issues you find with your grinder. If the spindle ends turn true, without runout, then you will likely be able to fix it up to your satisfaction without too much hassle. If the spindle ends do not run true, do not buy it!
 

bill70j

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We converted a 6-inch Delta VS bench grinder into a "tool room" grinder and here are our experiences making it run smoothly. The grinder itself, without wheels attached, ran smoothly, so we concentrated on the backing plates and wheels alone. Hope this helps.
  1. I purchased the backing plates that fit your grinder from Grizzly (PN 7762005). I found them to be flat, but poorly machined on the back side. I turned them, but still had to balance them due to voids in the castings.
  2. For carbide, I bought this CGW green silicone carbide grinding wheel off Amazon. It was shipped by Travers, but the Amazon price was cheaper than the Travers website price. I dressed the wheel, but still had to balance it. It's a good quality wheel.
  3. For HSS I bought this CGW AOx grinding wheel off Ebay. I dressed it, but it was still wildly out of balance, so I had to remove a whole lot of metal from the mounting plate to get it into balance. It's a CGW wheel, but of surprisingly poor quality. It now works OK.
  4. I took a chance and bought this diamond cup wheel (from China) off Ebay for less than $20.00. What a surprise. It works great as the final sharpening step for carbide. Only thing I had to do was balance it by removing material from the adapter.
In the end, the grinder runs relatively smoothly. Doesn't meet the "standing nickel on the housing" test, but is a lot smoother than Keith's. Here are photos of the grinder with the diamond wheel mounted and a brazed carbide bit that we ground and sharpened using the green wheel, followed by the diamond wheel.

Grinder with Diamond Wheel.jpg

Sharpened Brazed Bit.jpg
 
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Janderso

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Great information. Nice custom job.
Interesting about Traver's price and Amazon.
How did you "balance" the parts?
 

bill70j

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Great information. Nice custom job.
Interesting about Traver's price and Amazon.
How did you "balance" the parts?
Thanks, Jeff.

First I balanced the backing plates then balanced the wheels.

My balancing set-up was pretty crude. I secured two pieces of drill rod -- in parallel and a couple of inches apart -- on the surface of the mill table, extending them several inches over the edge. Then I put a tight-fitting arbor into the backing plate (with wheel mounted). The table is precision-leveled, so I placed the wheel arbor onto the extended rods (perpendicularly) and found the heavy point. Then I double-stick taped weights to the opposite (light) point to balance.

Then I weighed the added weights and from that, calculated how many 1/4" holes I needed to drill into the wheel mounting plate -- at the heavy point -- to equal the added weights. Then I repeated the process until the wheel balanced.

You can see in the photo just a few of the holes I had to drill into the AOx wheel plate.
AOx Wheel.jpg

Bill
 
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Janderso

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So the grinding wheel is in between the two rods? If so, I have the picture in my head.
I'm picturing you trying to capture the chips to weigh. No, I guess there are more ways to skin a cat.
 

bill70j

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So the grinding wheel is in between the two rods? If so, I have the picture in my head.
I'm picturing you trying to capture the chips to weigh. No, I guess there are more ways to skin a cat.
Exactly right. The guy in this short video is balancing a Type50 wheel using the same approach as I described, but using a different set up. He also uses trial and error to find out how much metal to drill out of the mounting plate, rather that weighing the balancing counterweights.
 

Janderso

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#21
Jeff, does the grinder run smoothly, without vibration?
Bob, I took the grinding wheels off. Wow, it runs like a dream. The wheels are way out of true. I am going to dress them this morning to see what the results will be regarding balance. The manual does say, to return to proper wheel operation and balance, to dress it.
I ordered the 1 diamond wheel. I would like to replace the other but I am having a heck of a time finding a grinding wheel that is designed for this style grinder.
I am reading through the Grizzly manual and what did I find??
These tool room grinders use a "TYPE 50", grinding wheel.
When I Googled Type 50 grinding wheel, the correct style came up.
There are "AAAbrasive, brand for only $375, I did find the silicone carbide straight cup wheel from Travers, for around $65 shipped.
It has to be better than the painted green oval wheels that come with the HD Grizzly grinder.
Learning every day.
 

Janderso

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#23
Thank You Mr. King.
I actually purchased, CGW Camel, brand from Traver's.
I am glad I have purchased quality.
I just finished dressing the jippo wheels. The vibration is much better. The painted green wheels don't give me much confidence though :).
 
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