What Mill Accessories to Start With?

[davidpbest]

@davidpbest has a great list to go by, you do not have to buy everything on that list or the same brands, but it is a great list to go by... I do not have the list handy, will look for it to share. Unless he chimes in before I can find it...

The current lists are attached.

 

[Bi11Hudson]

Might I suggest you start by getting a "feel" for machine work. Esoteric tooling can come later as you learn what it is you need. Each person is an individual and has different needs, and wants. A mill is a fair starting point, a lathe is better, but. . . That is my perspective, but at the bottom line, I don't build cars or dream of airplanes. I build models, I am a retired electrician. Ask yourself, "Do I really need a mill, or is is just that I want to do machine work?".

I have a friend that built an airplane with little more than an electric hand held drill. The engine was purchased as a unit. One does not build an engine and then go flying around on it. If it stops working in the air, you've got serious trouble. A motorcycle or automobile is a little more forgiving, depending on how fast you drive. When I was a teen, I and other teens were building automobiles with no more than a set of sockets and a ring squeezer.

Machine work is a self contained craft in and of itself. I direct that craft toward my models, so it is a secondary function. What you speak of places the machinist part of you in a secondary slot as well. I started with machine work before I was a teenager. My lathe was my father's electric drill clamped up in a vise. My tooling was a (rusty) file. I wanted to do something specific and that was a way to accomplish it. There are far better ways but that is what I had.

Take a similar perspective and "don't let your eyes get bigger than your stomach". When you know what you need, get it. If you don't know what something is, find out. When you want to do a particular "thing", look around. Somewhere there is a tool to do it. There are literally thousands of books on the subject. Start with something simple, like making a bolt that cannot be bought. Or making a repair part for the kitchen sink. Some project that allows you into the field without blowing your mind with the millions of details of the craft all at once.

Most any home shop has a hammer, a saw, and screwdrivers. So look around at what you have and build on that. A power saw or drill is the first step, of many. A full blown machine shop takes years of adding each little bit. Something as simple as a scribe is vital to a machinist. But also useful to a carpenter, a mason, or even a gardener. A power machine like a mill is building on a hacksaw and a file. They serve the same purpose, just one is a little faster than the other.

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[gene_weber]

Wow, thank you all for the responses! Very helpful. @davidpbest what an amazing list! Even embedded links! The facemill write-up is also really helpful.

I wish I had an unlimited budget, but that is far from the case. So I need to be patient and smart in how I go about this.

Here are my takeaways from your responses:

• No need for a boring head right now.
• Since there is no agreement about the vice, the glass is half-full, meaning no wrong answer. I'm not keen on dropping a lot of money on a vice before I know what I'm doing. I'm going to buy the better quality 5" vice from PM. When the day comes that I outgrow it, I'll get something better.
• I had not even thought about squares, dial indicators, etc for setup. Sigh... so I need to buy these.
• Sounds like a facemill will be needed sooner than later.
• I like the suggestion to buy a lot of used end mills. I'll watch ebay and craigslist. Might be a bit of a pig in poke, but a good way to get a variety to start with at a lower price.
• Yes I'd love a metal lathe, but the piggy bank will have to be refilled for that to happen.

Yeah, this is something I'll need to grow into over time. Like I had said, I'm hoping to go to PM, and would like to get what makes sense from them in one trip.

After reading the post from @Bi11Hudson I thought maybe sharing some more background would be good. I'm 60, so gray hair and life experience. Was raised working on cars, houses etc. I know how things work, and pride myself on being able to fix just about anything that is fixable. (I think these traits are dying out BTW) It's rare that I pay anyone to do anything for me, but my 60 year old body has convinced me to stop doing the painfully physical jobs. I've had more than one project at a time going on since I was a kid. I have a pretty decent workshop, but it's mostly woodworking equipment. Yes, I have shaped metal on my old Shopsmith with a file. When I had my "turning 40 crisis" I bought a motorcycle and a gyroplane. Restored the gyroplane with help of a talented older friend who had a machine shop and could make his Bridgeport mill sing. Sold it before ever flying it because a couple people I became acquainted with on a gyroplane forum crashed and died. My children were still young enough that the risk started to seem irresponsible. Sold the motorcycle several years later, and regretted that. Anyway, the good Lord gave me common sense and I have a healthy respect for things that can kill you. I did take some fixed wing flying lessons, gyroplane flying lessons, have gone up in a small helicopter, a powered parachute, and tried hang gliding in my youth. If there was ever a frustrated pilot wanna be, it's me. Right now I'm working on a 1979 Triumph Spitfire I bought. I didn't say restoring because I'm trying to see if I can shoehorn a Mazda V6 into it. I have a Ford T9 transmission cleaned and disassembled in my workshop. Making the transmission fit properly will take some machining. One of many items to get the engine to fit will be making a custom aluminum part for a remote oil filter. I've drawn the part up in SolidWorks, and my son-in-law has a 3D printer and has started fooling with sand casting, but even if successfully cast, the part would still need finish machining. I'm sure there will be at least a half dozen other parts I'll end up needing to make. If you google "gene weber 1979 triumph spitfire blog" you will find my blog on the project. Good reading if you're trying to cure insomnia.

Anyway, I could go out and have parts machined for me. But as I tell everyone who thinks I should get the Spitfire done ASAP and drive it, It's the doing that is the fun.

Thanks again!

 

[Aukai]

A fly cutter can do what a face mill can do(slower) for someone starting. Cheap insert face mills have issues with not all inserts being at the same height.

 

[erikmannie]

You can buy used or surplus HSS (which is to say, non-indexable) shell mill + arbor on eBay to hold you over until you get a face mill. Here are a few examples:




If not, a 1-1/2” diameter square end mill with a 1-1/4” shank in a 1-1/4” end mill holder could mill a large surface much faster than, say, a 3/4” square end mill.

Are you sure you don’t want to add a boring head? For those on a tight budget, a cheap import (gasp!) boring head/brazed carbide boring bar set would be fine, I’m sure. If you only have drills, your target inner diameters will be limited to the drill sizes that you have. The other benefit of a boring head is much improved surface finish on the bore sidewalls.

This is darned affordable:

 

[Aaron_W]

• Since there is no agreement about the vice, the glass is half-full, meaning no wrong answer. I'm not keen on dropping a lot of money on a vice before I know what I'm doing. I'm going to buy the better quality 5" vice from PM. When the day comes that I outgrow it, I'll get something better.

Look at the size mill people have when they suggest a larger vise. Everybody who has experience with a mill of similar size to the 7x28 recommended a 4" vise. A 5" vise is significantly larger and a 6" at least 50% larger. I do not think you will be happy if your primary vise is larger than 4"

Kurt is the standard, but comes at a high cost, 3" and 4" vises cost nearly as much as 6" because they are far less common. 6" is super common because that is what you usually find on a Bridgeport. Bridgeports and clones have a 9" table, that 2" makes a huge difference in the size vise that will comfortably fit.

PM sells a Taiwan made Homge 4" vise for $349. That is worth looking at as it should be a decent vise and only runs about 1/2 what a Kurt will cost you. Glacern is another quality brand, but their 4" is $460 so getting close to what you may find a Kurt for on sale. Glacern does offer some good sales occasionally, I picked up a 4" for $350 with free shipping, but that was 2 years ago and costs have increased significantly since 2020.

You may find over time that you want more than 1 vise. My 6x24" Clausing came with a 5" vise, which works but I lose a significant amount of travel since it overhangs the table eating up about 1-1/2" of the 5-1/2" of available Y travel. I bought a 4" Glacern which is a much better fit to the mill, but I do still occasionally go back to the 5" for a particularly large piece.

 

[davidpbest]

• Since there is no agreement about the vice, the glass is half-full, meaning no wrong answer. I'm not keen on dropping a lot of money on a vice before I know what I'm doing. I'm going to buy the better quality 5" vice from PM. When the day comes that I outgrow it, I'll get something better.

You would be wise to select a vise that conforms to Kurt-standard vise jaws. Some of the Asian vises have oddball jaw sizes, hole placement, etc.. Alternative vise jaws give you a lot of flexibility, and they are available in various configurations (longer, taller, thicker, aluminum) from monsterjaws at a cost less than you can buy the raw material.

Example:

4" Vise Jaws - MonsterJaws Mfg

monsterjaws.com

For instance, I routinely use extra long jaws with a built-in parallel-like ledge machined into it.

 

[Jim F]

Look at the size mill people have when they suggest a larger vise. Everybody who has experience with a mill of similar size to the 7x28 recommended a 4" vise. A 5" vise is significantly larger and a 6" at least 50% larger. I do not think you will be happy if your primary vise is larger than 4"

Kurt is the standard, but comes at a high cost, 3" and 4" vises cost nearly as much as 6" because they are far less common. 6" is super common because that is what you usually find on a Bridgeport. Bridgeports and clones have a 9" table, that 2" makes a huge difference in the size vise that will comfortably fit.

PM sells a Taiwan made Homge 4" vise for $349. That is worth looking at as it should be a decent vise and only runs about 1/2 what a Kurt will cost you. Glacern is another quality brand, but their 4" is $460 so getting close to what you may find a Kurt for on sale. Glacern does offer some good sales occasionally, I picked up a 4" for $350 with free shipping, but that was 2 years ago and costs have increased significantly since 2020.

You may find over time that you want more than 1 vise. My 6x24" Clausing came with a 5" vise, which works but I lose a significant amount of travel since it overhangs the table eating up about 1-1/2" of the 5-1/2" of available Y travel. I bought a 4" Glacern which is a much better fit to the mill, but I do still occasionally go back to the 5" for a particularly large piece.

Also weight.
The 728 weighs 370#, a 6" vise is close to 100#, that is alot of weight hanging off the front of the bed.

 

[gene_weber]

@Aukai - Thanks. I read about fly cutters last night. That may make sense for me.

@erikmannie - Thanks. I hadn't though about being limited to my drill bit sizes which currently only go up to 1/2" for steel.

@Aaron_W, @davidpbest, @Jim F - Thanks. So the weight hanging off the front of the bed causes torque. Does that just result in wear, or also inaccuracy? I had no idea there were standards for the vices. (Don't most people with a lot of vices have no standards? ) I do see a few used Kurt 4" vices on Craigslist. They look a bit rough. I assume they can get worn out and damaged, and buying used would be a gamble? Dang, why are my lottery tickets always worthless.

 

[dbb-the-bruce]

A 6" vise is too much for that machine, half or more will be hanging off the front of the table.

Other will disagree with , but that is ok.

Agree. I have direct experience with this


Not that big of a deal BUT. I'm sort of new to this (been at it with a PM sized mill for a few years). Was totally new to milling when I bought the mill (and the 6" vise). It's fine but as I did more and more work I started to realize it really is too big for my machine. I do a lot of small stuff so I ended up mounting a precision tool makers vise 3" next to it. Recently I needed to use the alternate front/back jaw positions on the "Big" vise and finally realized that the clamping faces of the jaws in those positions are outside of the travel of my Y axis.

So I'd get the 4" vise if I was back to buying again.