What's a SB 7" shaper worth?

[Pevehouse]

I was lucky enough to run across mine about 6 months ago. Went to look at a metal cutting saw and the lady showed me this old nasty looking machine and right off I had no clue what it was and neither did she. I just saw the beauty under the crud and offered her $200 for what turned out to be a complete Atlas 7B. I am now in the process of the restoration of said machine,lol.

Oh I did end up finding the one guard that was missing. Had to pay out the nose for it on eBay but glad I did

 

[benmychree]

The same obsolete mentality has been in the hobby woodwork area for years. They'll buy an old 3 head drum sander instead of a widebelt. Or a Whitney copy shaper with a sprocket drive. Or a push thru, square head molder instead of a modern feed through with 6 or 8000 rpm heads. Those old machine are slow to setup, slow to run, heavy to move. Very little new traditional woodworking equipment is now made in the US. But a lot is still made in Italy, Poland, Germany....and of course China and Taiwan.

Speaking of old woodworking machinery, I salvaged a local planer that had been in town since at least the 1880s, it was a 24" 4 knife square head with lag bed feed with power up and down, maker unknown, I finally donated to our steam powered sawmill, where it continues to plane lumber on demonstration days, we had it powered by a Fairbanks Morse 2 cycle diesel, it finally refused to start, so we are replacing it with a steam engine of about 20 HP, steam supplied by a big steam donkey boiler, wood fired. This donkey is what was known as a road engine, used to pull logs on a skid road, it has two winch drums, one to pull logs and the other to pull the haul lune back to the starting point, there is in excess of one mile of wire rope on the haul line, 1 1/4" in diameter, I was told that the whole unit weighs about 40 thousand pounds.

 

[projectnut]

The same obsolete mentality has been in the hobby woodwork area for years. They'll buy an old 3 head drum sander instead of a widebelt. Or a Whitney copy shaper with a sprocket drive. Or a push thru, square head molder instead of a modern feed through with 6 or 8000 rpm heads. Those old machine are slow to setup, slow to run, heavy to move. Very little new traditional woodworking equipment is now made in the US. But a lot is still made in Italy, Poland, Germany....and of course China and Taiwan.

I think you're missing the point as to why hobbyists gravitate to obsolete industrial grade equipment. A modern machine may do a quality job faster with less manual labor and require less setup time, but the old machine still gets the job done. A company trying to make a profit on each piece of product they produce has a completely different set of priorities than a hobbyist trying to make a one-off item purely for their own personal pleasure.

While the machinery in my shop probably would no longer live up to the rigors of turning out parts all day every day, they are certainly capable making the quality and quantity parts at the rate I need them. On the other hand, I have less invested in two dozen machines than it would cost to purchase one new CNC mill or lathe. We aren't trying to make a living with these machines, but rather spending time relaxing, working with our hands, learning skills, and making objects we can enjoy. Some of us have outfitted our shops with machines put out to pasture when the companies we worked for decided it was time to upgrade to the next generation. The old machines still work fine. However, the company couldn't make a profit paying the machinists the going hourly rate and only making a limited number of parts in the same time period. The new machines allow the company to make enough parts to pay the employees the going wage and benefit rate, and still turn a profit.

I regard my old obsolete machines the same as Charlton Heston regarded his rifle. The only way I'll give them up is when you pry them out of my cold dead hands. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

 

[Larry$]

Fairbanks Morse 2 cycle diesel,

WW2 US submarines used FM 2 cycle engines. I got to go aboard one being used for research when I was on my Midshipman cruise. 60 YAG. Two blocks mounted head to head (no heads) each crankshaft brought the opposing pistons toward each other. They were long engines. Those engines are still in service and new ones are being made. 8.5" bore 10" stroke x2??

 

[682bear]

I think you're missing the point as to why hobbyists gravitate to obsolete industrial grade equipment. A modern machine may do a quality job faster with less manual labor and require less setup time, but the old machine still gets the job done. A company trying to make a profit on each piece of product they produce has a completely different set of priorities than a hobbyist trying to make a one-off item purely for their own personal pleasure.

While the machinery in my shop probably would no longer live up to the rigors of turning out parts all day every day, they are certainly capable making the quality and quantity parts at the rate I need them. On the other hand, I have less invested in two dozen machines than it would cost to purchase one new CNC mill or lathe. We aren't trying to make a living with these machines, but rather spending time relaxing, working with our hands, learning skills, and making objects we can enjoy. Some of us have outfitted our shops with machines put out to pasture when the companies we worked for decided it was time to upgrade to the next generation. The old machines still work fine. However, the company couldn't make a profit paying the machinists the going hourly rate and only making a limited number of parts in the same time period. The new machines allow the company to make enough parts to pay the employees the going wage and benefit rate, and still turn a profit.

I regard my old obsolete machines the same as Charlton Heston regarded his rifle. The only way I'll give them up is when you pry them out of my cold dead hands. That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Also, a shaper is capable of removing a lot of material very cheaply in a home shop. It's not quick, but the tooling is cheap.

-Bear

 

[jwmay]

I had an Ammco shaper for a few years. It was really a fun little machine. If a person is truly not in any hurry, then I can understand. But even as only a hobbyist, my patience ran out with it. There was sort of an arc. It was really fun at first. I cleaned it, and fiddled with it, and played. Then I decided to make some tool holders. I spent three evenings on one. Then I decided to do most of the milling on a round column mill, with dovetails done on the shaper. By my fourth tool holder, I had bought a dovetail cutter, and did the whole thing on the mill. I think that was the end of my fun with the shaper. I kept it a couple more years. Now if I had the space and time, I’d buy an obscenely large one, and just peel chips all day for no reason. But I’m pretty certain it’s not the machine for me, even if it weighed three ton.

 

[tweinke]

Just came in from the shop, Just got done squaring some semi-crappy cast iron for a project. I certainly would not have wanted to buy the endmills I would have ruined getting through the hard skin on that cast. Was it slow, yes but it was cheap to run and it seems relaxing hearing it run while I get other things done. Think the old Rhodes saved me a few bucks. Was it fast no but did the dirty work I asked of it. I wouldn't be without it.

 

[projectnut]

A few years ago, on an RV caravan I ran into a gentleman that owned a large job shop in Detroit. During one of many conversations, I asked what their specialties were. His answer was that the bulk of their business was making parts for the auto industry. Mainly contracts with Ford, GM, and Chrysler. One of their high-volume products was brake bleeder screws. Each contract was for between 2,000,000 and 6,000,000 parts.

I was a bit surprised to hear they were being made on B&S #2 screw machines. He had over a dozen working at a time, with several others held in reserve should they get an emergency order, or an online machine failed. Some of his machines dated back to the 1950's. They were making parts at the rate of one every 2.3 seconds. That might sound like high-speed production, but he was in the process of having several updated to go even faster.

In order to retain the contract and still make a profit he had to reduce the production time to a minimum a part every 1.9 seconds. The machines were being sent out a few at a time to a local company that specializes in updating them from cam operated functions to electronic servos, steppers, and actuators. A couple were slated for completion and production testing in about 6 weeks. Preliminary testing showed the machines were capable of completing a part within 1.4 seconds. They still had to go through long term testing to be sure they would be successful in a production situation.

It's encouraging to see that a machine built in the 1950's is not only still functional today, but also that it can be updated to keep up with today's production demands.

 

[ddillman]

The forum needs to put a stop to these threads. I never find deals like these in my area.

 

[Jason Annen]

My South Bend is the one on Facebook Marketplace on page one of this thread. It just sold for $1700 and is being shipped to Saskatchewan.