Suggested Sticky

One of the best things about this place is
that people are generally very patient helping new members answer the questions needed to get their questions answered.

No sticky or checklist can replace that. Too many forums have folks who will tell newbies to “just do a search, read the stickies, or ask better questions”.

Being helpful usually means being patient and our members get an A+ in that respect.

John
 
matthewsx said:
One of the best things about this place is
that people are generally very patient helping new members answer the questions needed to get their questions answered.

No sticky or checklist can replace that. Too many forums have folks who will tell newbies to “just do a search, read the stickies, or ask better questions”.

Being helpful usually means being patient and our members get an A+ in that respect.

John
Click to expand...

Very true, John. The problem is that we have soooo many new guys asking about which lathe or mill to buy and we all too often have inadequate information about their needs or circumstances. Consequently, we tend to suggest everything from soup to nuts trying to help them decide. This can be a lot of work for some responders; you should know, I've seen you put a lot of effort into many of your thoughtful and respectful responses.

The idea under discussion here is to perhaps have a vehicle that could help the new guy organize his thoughts and priorities so that we can all focus our efforts to better suit HIS needs. What do you think?

I tell you one thing that bugs the hell out of me and I haven't said anything about it .... yet. I hate when someone starts a thread and does not respond to the guys who step up and try to help. Some threads can go for days and not have a single response from the OP. My feeling is that if you start a thread, especially if you're asking for help or advice, then you should own that thread and stay engaged until the issue is resolved. This is one of the things I would put into that work sheet if I could.
 
vtcnc said:
Here is my contribution.
Click to expand...
I like the concept of each question having a range of options rather than be open ended.
There are topics / types of lathe work with which I am unfamiliar - the most obvious one being gunsmithing. What kind of variation along that line?
Obviousely on one end is will never do it, and the other end is I want to be able to make 24 inch rifle barrel from a piece of rebar.... (lol, maybe we should be more realistic...) but what would the 5 levels be for this?
 
ArmyDoc said:
I like the concept of each question having a range of options rather than be open ended.
There are topics / types of lathe work with which I am unfamiliar - the most obvious one being gunsmithing. What kind of variation along that line?
Obviousely on one end is will never do it, and the other end is I want to be able to make 24 inch rifle barrel from a piece of rebar.... (lol, maybe we should be more realistic...) but what would the 5 levels be for this?
Click to expand...
Yes, I do lots of audits and evaluations as part of a side consulting gig and I use a 5 point evaluation scale which allows for a couple of things to happen: a) I get a sense of what is currently going on and what the potential could be and b) the evaluation allows for a deeper discussion to evolve and for more pointed questions. These types of questionnaires are simply starting points which take the participants to the better discussion that everyone wants to have. They are not designed to say: " you need to do this, or you need to buy that. " They are meant to help shape a solution together.

This will sound very esoteric but I try to think of these 5 point scales in terms of a point vs. counterpoint, benefits vs. tradeoffs of the direct pointed observation in the context of an overall goal or view of the horizon. In other words, each point rating represents some multi-dimensional/multi-faceted scenario that will lead to a better place. Sorry, I do not mean to sound evasive or clever, but this is how I operate. An unrelated example might help:

Audit for Workplace Training Program:

Criteria - Relationship between Effort & Success

1 - No effort, throw people into the frying pan, people are making things and are productive, but quality and throughput requires constant monitoring and hand holding. (this would be considered a failing grade or failing program)

2 - Just starting, some areas are trying, some pockets of success. But most areas would be ranked a level 1. (this would be considered below average when compared to other players in the industry or field you are in)

3 - All areas are doing some workplace training, not a lot of standardization, not a comprehensive plan for the organization. Most areas are managing and doing less firefighting as a result of their training efforts as compared to level 1 and 2. (This is considered average and should be the expectation to some degree or another in any organization for basic performance in trying to meet organizational goals)

4 - Some areas are considered world class workplace training examples and meet or exceed company goals regularly or with what appears to be ease. Other areas in the company are learning and copying these successful areas, teams or leaders. There is some understanding by others as to what is working and making these areas successful. Less successful (i.e. level 3 or lower) are learning what is not working and adopting good practices from level 4 areas. Level 4 leaders are actively coaching others.

5 - All areas are considered to be world class. Level 5 leaders consider themselves to be re-learning and starting over since their level of performance exceeds company goals. Outsiders are seeking to learn from the company.
_______________________________

Here is the problem with creating a questionnaire: we can apply this kind of thinking to our criteria for new lathe selection in very helpful and very unhelpful ways:

Unhelpful Criteria: What kind of lathe do you want? (this is too open ended)

1 - I have no idea what I want
2 - I have some idea what I want
3 - I want what everyone else wants
4 - I want something different than what everyone else has
5 - I want something unique and unlike what everyone else has.

This leaves one wanting more information. It isn't really helpful, which is why you suggested a questionnaire. Let's be more specific:

Helpful Criteria: What kind of material do you want to cut? (my thinking behind this question is what is the easiest, least effort, least tooling and progressing up to harder, more expensive, more rigid machines, more knowledge, etc.)

1 - Plastics, Brass, Aluminum
2 - Steel, Cast Iron
3 - Stainless, Alloys
4 - Hard metals,
5 - Exotics, Ceramics

If we harmonize all of the other criteria to follow thing context, then we can make recommendations that are relevant. For example, if the person answers 20 questions and they landed on a 3.2 for their average score, I'm sure we can agree on a range of makes, models, prices lathe types that this person might consider for purchase.

So, intention and context matters. If we put together a good questionnaire. It will require at least two worksheets, one for people to answer, and one for the evaluators to put the criteria into context. And possibly a third, which would be a recommendation sheet based on the answers. If all of you have followed me this far, the thing you are probably thinking is that these answers will start to point to a make, model and price that can be recommended.
 
mikey said:
Very true, John. The problem is that we have soooo many new guys asking about which lathe or mill to buy and we all too often have inadequate information about their needs or circumstances. Consequently, we tend to suggest everything from soup to nuts trying to help them decide. This can be a lot of work for some responders; you should know, I've seen you put a lot of effort into many of your thoughtful and respectful responses.

The idea under discussion here is to perhaps have a vehicle that could help the new guy organize his thoughts and priorities so that we can all focus our efforts to better suit HIS needs. What do you think?

I tell you one thing that bugs the hell out of me and I haven't said anything about it .... yet. I hate when someone starts a thread and does not respond to the guys who step up and try to help. Some threads can go for days and not have a single response from the OP. My feeling is that if you start a thread, especially if you're asking for help or advice, then you should own that thread and stay engaged until the issue is resolved. This is one of the things I would put into that work sheet if I could.
Click to expand...
I think this post really gets to the heart of why we should organize and see this through. We can solve a lot of problems here.

1) You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. I.e., newbie starts the thread and doesn't finish it. If we do this right, you can't start the post without filling out the questionnaire - FIRST.

2) If they start start the questionnaire, then they will solve half of the problem themselves. If they start the post, then I suspect most of the threads will have a higher chance of completion. I imagine most of the questions at that point will be - validation (does this makes sense?) and request for testimonials (anybody bought one of these?)

It will also allow for more meaningful conversation about preparing for and making chips and less about just guiding newbies through the basics which can be read and absorbed with minimal effort.

If we do this right, we could have a nice and tidy Lathe Buyer's Guide download for newbies.
 
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