833TV Received

ahazi

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My tubes were bigger (circa 1978)...
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Ariel
 

DavidR8

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Just dropped into the FrontPanel website. Very cool stuff, thanks for the lead.
 

parshal

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I think that's just a bunch of switches, knobs and lights. It reminds me of Airplane 2 when William Shatner was looking at the board with red flashing lights and said "make them green".
 

parshal

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So, finally, I have my Mitutoyo DRO installed. I bet I've got 15-20 hours into this thing and this is revision 4.8.

First, I abandoned putting in a stop. There's a horizontal section of casting that precludes one from using the factory hole unless I cut the casting which I decided against.. I'd need a much larger piece coming off the spindle collar to thread in the stop to put it in front of the faceplate and I felt that would obstruct my view more.

That horizontal casting also stopped me from putting the DRO bar behind the faceplate. The hole I had made in the new faceplate fit the DRO perfect and was in the right location but the casting. Of course, I didn't 'discover' the casting in the way until I was on revision 2.

I ordered a new faceplate without the rectangle cutout. I tweaked the faceplate by reducing height by a few .01" to get it to fit just perfect and had the corners rounded a touch more.

I liked David's use of the rotary table for the spindle collar so I had to copy that, twice, maybe three times. It looks like it was done by a 10th grader in shop class.

I'd say there's no way I could get paid to do machinist work. My hourly wage would be .57 cents.

mydro2.jpg
mydro1.jpg
 

ahazi

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If I get it right you lost the quill stop functionality in exchange for the quill DRO. Right?

If I had to do it I will do the following:
  1. Move the control box/VFD to the left (about 2 inch) by mounting it through spacers and longer screws to the head casting
  2. Keep the original stop
  3. Install the DRO between the VFD and the head casting
I hope I make sense. I know you are tired from playing but this way you will not lose functionality. What do you think?
 

parshal

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I didn’t really care for the factory stop. I was going to install a BP type with 1/2-20 rod. I don’t do a whole lot of repetive hole drilling so I think the DRO will suffice. I had planned on putting the DRO in middle next to the stop. There really wouldn’t be a need to move the vfd.
 

ahazi

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So, finally, I have my Mitutoyo DRO installed. I bet I've got 15-20 hours into this thing and this is revision 4.8.

First, I abandoned putting in a stop. There's a horizontal section of casting that precludes one from using the factory hole unless I cut the casting which I decided against.. I'd need a much larger piece coming off the spindle collar to thread in the stop to put it in front of the faceplate and I felt that would obstruct my view more.

That horizontal casting also stopped me from putting the DRO bar behind the faceplate. The hole I had made in the new faceplate fit the DRO perfect and was in the right location but the casting. Of course, I didn't 'discover' the casting in the way until I was on revision 2.

I ordered a new faceplate without the rectangle cutout. I tweaked the faceplate by reducing height by a few .01" to get it to fit just perfect and had the corners rounded a touch more.

I liked David's use of the rotary table for the spindle collar so I had to copy that, twice, maybe three times. It looks like it was done by a 10th grader in shop class.

I'd say there's no way I could get paid to do machinist work. My hourly wage would be .57 cents.

View attachment 318454 View attachment 318453
This is a question to Brian and David and anyone else who has experience/opinion on adding a quill DRO.

In both of your installations and for David even going back to the RF45, the DRO beam is fixed and the display is moving. I believe that I found a way to have a moving beam and a fixed display inside the head of the PM833. This will eliminate the need for the SS rod that moves the display on the beam similar to installations in the pictures below. Any reasons not to do it this way? It seems to me like a simpler and cleaner solution.

Ariel

PM-25-DRO-nostand-web.jpg
shop-fox-drill-presses-m1116-c3_1000.jpg


s-l1600.jpg
 

parshal

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I'd seen a few set up like that and considered it at first. The reason I went with the rod was because it's a smaller form factor. I didn't want the larger beam part of the DRO obstructing my view. It would be nice to have the reader in the same spot, though.
 

davidpbest

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I don't see any particular reason you couldn't do as you said. I have the Mitutoyo DRO on my PM1340 tailstock mounted as you describe. The challenge you will run into is alignment of the beam. If both the beam and display are anchored, the the beam has to be aligned to the dispaly at both ends of travel prior to locking the beam in position. My RF45 did not have a cavity in the head casting to accept the display unit, otherwise I would have attempted that version. Also, make sure you mount the display so that battery changes are easy.
 

ahazi

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I'd seen a few set up like that and considered it at first. The reason I went with the rod was because it's a smaller form factor. I didn't want the larger beam part of the DRO obstructing my view. It would be nice to have the reader in the same spot, though.
I don't see any particular reason you couldn't do as you said. I have the Mitutoyo DRO on my PM1340 tailstock mounted as you describe. The challenge you will run into is alignment of the beam. If both the beam and display are anchored, the the beam has to be aligned to the dispaly at both ends of travel prior to locking the beam in position. My RF45 did not have a cavity in the head casting to accept the display unit, otherwise I would have attempted that version. Also, make sure you mount the display so that battery changes are easy.
Thank you both!

I will go for it. The battery will not be an issue with the DRO that I have (Shars, see pictures). The alignment is something I think I can do. I will post pictures when I am done.

Ariel

s-l1600 (battery).jpg
s-l1600 (USB).jpg
s-l1600(mm).jpg


303-9304-diagram.jpg
 

davidpbest

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Thank you both!

I will go for it. The battery will not be an issue with the DRO that I have (Shars, see pictures). The alignment is something I think I can do. I will post pictures when I am done.

Ariel

View attachment 321566 View attachment 321567 View attachment 321568

View attachment 321569
For the record, I absolutely detest the Shars or any other Chinese-made digital scale like this. They all eat batteries like crazy. Watch this video, and this video. I own one of those Shars scales, and can confirm AvE's commentary. :) Mitutoyo RULES !!!
 

ahazi

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Did anyone measure the actual quill travel of the PM833? The spec is 5", I measure only 4"+ of travel. Not sure if something was assembled wrong in my mill or the spec was just "stretched" to look better or maybe the absence of a quill DRO allowed some "creativity"
 

ahazi

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For the record, I absolutely detest the Shars or any other Chinese-made digital scale like this. They all eat batteries like crazy. Watch this video, and this video. I own one of those Shars scales, and can confirm AvE's commentary. :) Mitutoyo RULES !!!
David,

I agree that the Mitutoyo calipers are better but some of the others (like iGaging) are not that bad. I got curious and probably with the extra time from the "stay home" situation I decided to actually measure my digital calipers. My Mitutoyo is really old (1985) but it still works. I really like my iGaging caliper and the current consumption is fair also the absolute encoder is really nice.

Anyway if anyone is interested in the real numbers here they are.

1587805450899.png
 

davidpbest

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Did anyone measure the actual quill travel of the PM833? The spec is 5", I measure only 4"+ of travel. Not sure if something was assembled wrong in my mill or the spec was just "stretched" to look better or maybe the absence of a quill DRO allowed some "creativity"
Your quill moves?
 

ahazi

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Did anyone measure the actual quill travel of the PM833? The spec is 5", I measure only 4"+ of travel. Not sure if something was assembled wrong in my mill or the spec was just "stretched" to look better or maybe the absence of a quill DRO allowed some "creativity"
Mystery solved... It's probably better to wait till the morning to look again at problems...

So it turns out that the 21mm hex head of the drawbar if "not positioned right" will limit the travel. See pictures below:

20200425_101820.jpg
20200425_102529c.jpg


This is the "right position" to get full travel:

20200425_102233c.jpg
20200425_102258c.jpg


The "missing" 0.2" travel to make the spec of 5" is the O-ring that acts a spacer.

This is not a critical issue and it seems that a smaller hex head for the drawbar will guarantee full travel regardless of rotational position. I think that the standard size is 3/4" or 19 mm. Am I the only/first person discovering this?

Ariel
 
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davidpbest

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I would expect this kind of thing from mainland China, but not from Taiwan. Seems like the Taiwanese machines are getting pretty sloppy in some areas. The original J-head on my PM935 was flawed and had to be replaced.
 

parshal

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There’s a recess for the o-ring at the top of the quill. It’s still not large/deep enough to fully seat the ring. When I replaced the collar I almost took the o-ring off but then realized it’s there to cushion the quill when it retracts.

My o-ring has paint overspray. In my garage it’ll be cracked within the year and I don’t know how/if I’ll replace it.
 

mksj

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The O ring on the quill is pretty standard, on my BF30 it had a fairly strong return spring and the O ring would soften the full return. Lasted for many years, but if needed to be replaced the lower mount of the ram was easily removed with one clamping bolts in the back. One of the nice features of the drawbar was it was a smaller hex and there were flats on at the top of the spindle for a standard wrench to lock it. It was still a bit of a pain to switch tooling so I mostly used an ER32 collet system for end mills. The spindle travel on the BF30 was 4".

The spindle DRO was integrated into the head and also the depth stop. They had two proximity stops in the head triggered off of the depth stop position for auto reverse with the tapping function.
bf30.jpg
 

ahazi

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I would expect this kind of thing from mainland China, but not from Taiwan. Seems like the Taiwanese machines are getting pretty sloppy in some areas. The original J-head on my PM935 was flawed and had to be replaced.
I don't know if it is fair to assume that everything from Taiwan got worse because of this mismatch. I think that they made a mistake by picking a 21mm hex size for the drawbar head. I looked at my old RF25 drill/mill and the hex size there is 17mm. Obviously this is a bigger machine with more power so the main spline shaft is beefier so someone thought that "bigger is better" and used a 21mm hex head. I believe that standard BP drawbar size is 3/4" or 19mm which might be an easy fix for this machine. Precision Matthews (QMT) - are you listening?

Otherwise no complains so far. The machine makes lots of chips fast... The surface quality of machined parts is beautiful and it was easy to tram in the X direction and the column traming (Y direction) from the factory is dead on. I am getting the hang of the machine usage while fixing and improving around. I like it!

Next tasks are:
Coaxial light
Digital RPM indicator
3 phase motor and VFD install
Permanent install of a pneumatic power drawbar wrench.
 

davidpbest

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For the record, my comment about declining QC standards in Taiwan was not based solely on your drawbar hex-head. Indeed, I have a observed a continuing list of issues and complaints that would not have been present 10-15 years ago. The dive to the bottom has clearly infected a once superior manufacturing community.

That said, I’m glad you are lavishing praise on the results this mill is producing. We should do a bake-off comparison of your 833 against my 935 on removal rates, tolerances and surface finishes achieved using the same tooling. I have $20 that says your 833 wins.
 

ahazi

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For the record, my comment about declining QC standards in Taiwan was not based solely on your drawbar hex-head. Indeed, I have a observed a continuing list of issues and complaints that would not have been present 10-15 years ago. The dive to the bottom has clearly infected a once superior manufacturing community.

That said, I’m glad you are lavishing praise on the results this mill is producing. We should do a bake-off comparison of your 833 against my 935 on removal rates, tolerances and surface finishes achieved using the same tooling. I have $20 that says your 833 wins.
Yes, I am happy with the mill so far but not sure that I am a great benchmark (at least not yet...)

Sure. Setup a benchmark/test for the mills, I am game. It will also be an opportunity to check against the PM-833TV.
 
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