Gilbert Erector set 1913 motor

[C-Bag]

Anyway, I'm convinced regardless of our end motivation, keeping the brain active by working on projects is a good thing. Lot's better use of my time than watching sports on TV or Netflix.

Amen. The idea China would knock it off is often said but in the grand scheme of things not often done. There is just so much detail work that takes #1 a sample of the original, and #2 copying with original intent. That takes a level of attention close to obsessive and I’ve not seen that with things that are not in their culture. Like who’s going to die grind the frame to replicate a cast piece? But without that the discerning collectors would be immediately put off.

You also have a great mixture of modern like the CNC to do the semi mass production while you do the detailed hand work. So if you were to look at it from a purely monetary standpoint how would they calculate the ROI? For a crude looking antique child’s toy? I would say you have the ultimate niche. You have been incredibly generous with your documentation on doing your process and have you seen others doing what you do? For me it just illustrates what a daunting task it is.

I LOVE seeing this kind of stuff because to all those who’ve gotten used to buying mass produced stuff and see something handmade and expecting mass produced prices it shows the amount of infrastructure, engineering and commitment it takes. I might have mentioned this before but my wife’s best friends husbands father used to own a metal shop. They had contracts to make metal parts for all kinds of stuff. He named off a bunch but the only ones that stuck were parts for the old Colman gas lantern and stove. They had huge machines that punched out 1,000’s of parts a day. I would have loved to go through a place like that and see how they did it.

 

[Larry$]

I was just funning you with the Chinese quip!
That said, a friend made things in wood that got knocked off. His work carefully made but in simple white boxes that he added a printed label to. The Chinese made a crude copy, put it in a 4 color picture box and it sold @ retail in this country for 50% of Ed's price.

 

[C-Bag]

I was just funning you with the Chinese quip!
That said, a friend made things in wood that got knocked off. His work carefully made but in simple white boxes that he added a printed label to. The Chinese made a crude copy, put it in a 4 color picture box and it sold @ retail in this country for 50% of Ed's price.

I figured that Larry$, but as one who’s been making a gadget for 34yrs now that phrase is one of the first things out everybody’s mouth upon looking at it, along with “I thought about this too!” And it hasn’t happened yet but it’s always in the back of my mind and I did expect it to happen. But I also don’t document anywhere how I do what I do.

What’s interesting is usually after “I thought about something like this” and it will be knocked off, the next words were why don’t you have it made out of plastic? And you’d be smart to have it made in China. I’m not joking. So i can’t help but get triggered by it. I’ve heard of others in my wheelhouse the music industry being knocked off. Even with patents. And I know it happens. But the Chinese being astute entrepreneurs would look at something that has low startup cost and cheap to make and sell with unlimited market. I think I’ve seen those wooden boxes.

 

[BGHansen]

I was just funning you with the Chinese quip!
That said, a friend made things in wood that got knocked off. His work carefully made but in simple white boxes that he added a printed label to. The Chinese made a crude copy, put it in a 4 color picture box and it sold @ retail in this country for 50% of Ed's price.

You aren't too far off about the Chinese knock-offs. At work right now eating lunch and don't see photos of it on my work computer, but I've got a small Erector set from Taiwan that was a Gilbert copy. They even copied the manual page for page. Girders, base plates, etc. were identical. I'm guessing it was produced after the company went out of business in 1967 (sold the name and tooling to Gabriel Toys). Must be someone saw a market though this set is the only one I've ever seen.

There are some guys in the collecting club who are pursuing sources in China for a number of parts. Not to bore you with too much detail, but the most used part was a part number S51 screw - 1/4" long. They varied the head style slightly through the years from 1913 - 1981. Things like finish (nickel plated, zinc plated, cadmium plated, tin plated, gun blued, etc.) and head size changed periodically. The only common thing was thread (8-32) and drive style (slotted). A hard variation to find are the 1931/32 screws. They were nickel-plated with a head about 7/32" in diameter. The head was nearly spherical where others have a larger OD and are flatter. These screws were primarily in the Hudson train sets as the head size needed to be small to fit into some areas. Guys are getting quotes from suppliers in China for a source of these screws.

By the way, here are photos of an original motor. I recall these being from the eBay ad that sold for $3500.

Bruce

 

[hman]

Possibility for the cuts on the armature ... if you can turn your rotary table vertical, you could CNC mill each arm, then rotate the work 120º, rinse and repeat. The only complex thing I can think of offhand is how to get the rotational position of each part "zeroed."

I've been doing a number of hand coded CNC projects myself. But I first design on CAD, then move the cursor position at each intersection to get the X and Y. The CAD software I'm using is a free but "crippled" version of what's normally a $2000 package. No 3D output capability, so I wing it.

Question ... is UG Unigraphics???

"Lot's better use of my time than watching sports on TV or Netflix." Amen!

 

[BGHansen]

Good thought on using the 4th axis in the flat state. I metal finish the surface to get the cast look, if I'm off in alignment by 0.01" it wouldn't be the end of the world.

Bruce

 

[hman]

PS - One of the delightful features of this particular motor is the "homebuilt" appearance of such features as a finish nail as used an operating handle. Definitely speaks to the culture of the day.

 

[Larry$]

Was the original casting iron?

 

[BGHansen]

Was the original casting iron?

The armature and field core were originally cast iron.

Bruce

 

[BGHansen]

Some updates on the motor project. First, I made a couple of hardened drill bushings for making the commutators and the holes for the switch cylinder.

Pretty standard stuff on the bushings, used a chunk of 7/8" drill rod. Faced, center drilled, clearance hole drilled and bored to size.





One bushing has a little over 0.500" hole to slip over 1/2" brass tubing. Brass contacts are screwed to the commutator base at 120 deg. angles. Used a hex collet block to do the angular indexing; drilled a #53 and tap hole for a 10-24 clamp screw. Figured as long as I was at the mill, overdid it and drilled six #53 holes and 10-24 tap holes.






Parted the bushings on the lathe after the mill work. Flipped and faced to length.




Threw them into the heat-treat furnace to harden. Left them full hard.


Commutator drill bushing has holes at 60 degrees, switch at 90's.


Goes much quicker sliding the drill bushing in place, then drill the pilot holes for #2 screws and a #43 through the brass.



Same process as described earlier in this thread. The drill bushings are the length of the finished part. I band saw off a "chunk" after the holes are drilled, then on to the 2 x 42 sander to flush the trimmed end to length.


Started using a stubby 5/32" drill to knock in the center axle hole. Let's me skip the center drill step.



Thanks for looking, Bruce