Help me get over the hump

Lowlyslows said:
I see what you're talking about. The 1127 is a better lathe. However, is this the "at least buy this" mind set? I can always go to the next size up which can be a better lathe as well. It's almost $1000 more than the 1022/30 lathe. Wouldn't I be fine with the 1022/30 lathe? Or is the D1-4 camlock worth the extra $$ amongst the other features?

I also plan to mount the unit on top of a tool chest with a thick top. It can handle 1,100 lbs and would be great to keep all the tooling co-located with the unit.
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This is where it helps to have a solid idea of what you want to do. Moving up to an 11 or 12" lathe will get you more power, and a larger spindle bore as well as a larger envelope all around. It also usually means moving up to 220v, and pretty much eliminates any chance of moving the lathe without mechanical assistance.

It is also a very slippery slope. The 1022 is $2300, but for only $900 more you can get the 1127, and now you are only $300 from a 12x28. Once there its only another $500 for the 1236T "Ultra Precision" and that gets you within $1000 of the 1340GT, I think you see where this is headed. :)


I'm going to buck the trend here a bit. Since you really don't know how you are going to use the lathe, you might consider going smaller (and cheaper) to start. You can learn the basics on a smaller lathe just as easily as the larger, and for the kinds of things you described in you first post they might be just fine. An 8x16 or 9x20 can be had new for less than $1500 and often for less than $1000 used. Tooling is generally cheaper for smaller lathes too. Use that lathe to learn and figure out your needs / wants.

Maybe that small lathe will be all you need, maybe it will help you decide you really need a 20x84 like this https://bakersfield.craigslist.org/tls/d/santa-barbara-industrial-metal-lathe/6779698831.html

Also once you have played with the lathe for a while and hung around here, you will get a much better feel for what to look at on a used lathe.

$2500 is a lot of money to spend on something that may not meet your needs. Small lathes also seem to hold their value a little better, because there is a much larger market for them. The 9" and 10" Logan, Southbend, and Atlas lathes can often be found at similar prices to larger 12-14" lathes because almost anybody can fit these small/medium size lathes into their shop.

Notice the low price on the monster I linked to above. It takes a special kind of dedication to provide a home to a 13 foot long 6000lb lathe.
 
Having recently been there, I was looking at the 1022/1030 initially. I think it would have been a good choice for me, but I chose the 1127.

Larger spindle bore. I didn't initially think I'd care that much, but having done more work on the lathe, I'm very glad to have it.

D1-4. I initially thought it was a little thing. But being able to rapidly change the chuck is really nice. It also meant I could get standard chucks like collet chucks or higher end 3/4/6 jaws and they will fit right up. That said, the bolt on style the 1022 uses works well and you can still thread in reverse, which is a very nice way to go. Some of the old iron can't do that as the chuck threads on the spindle directly.

The 1127 and up have wider beds, more rigidity and more powerful motors.

One thing I like about PM is that even the smaller 1022 has power cross feed. I initially didn't think it would be a big deal, but I use it every time I use the lathe. I wouldn't want one without it now.

I think those are the big differences that made me go up. Do you need them? Hard to say. It's easy for us to spend your money. :) I will say that of the smaller lathes, I liked the PM the most. You get a lot of bang for your buck with them. If I were to get the 10", I would go with the 1030. It's a small amount extra, but after seeing how much space tooling takes up, I think I would feel cramped on the 1022. After that it gets VERY easy to fall into the "just another few hundred" trap.
 
Lowlyslows said:
I see what you're talking about. The 1127 is a better lathe. However, is this the "at least buy this" mind set? I can always go to the next size up which can be a better lathe as well. It's almost $1000 more than the 1022/30 lathe. Wouldn't I be fine with the 1022/30 lathe? Or is the D1-4 camlock worth the extra $$ amongst the other features?

I also plan to mount the unit on top of a tool chest with a thick top. It can handle 1,100 lbs and would be great to keep all the tooling co-located with the unit.
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There is a thing called "feature creep". You look at a lathe but the next model up has this feature or that feature and its only a few hundred more. It goes on and on and unless you know which features matter to you, there is no end to it. That is why I mentioned that you need to know which features are really important to have, so you can draw a line. Another parameter that helps to draw a line is your budget. If you decide there is a number you cannot cross then draw that line and don't look at lathes above that number.

I'll try to help by telling you the features I think are really important to have.
  • Camlock spindle. This allows you to use a chuck made by any manufacturer, as long as it fits your lathe. Smaller lathes typically come with a proprietary spindle. To me, this feature is really important.
  • Separate saddle drive shaft. Most small lathes drive the saddle via a key that rides in a slot in the leadscrew. It works. However, a separate drive shaft is much better, will live longer and will probably be more accurate over time.
  • Precision spindle and high accuracy spindle bearings.
  • Hardened and ground ways.
  • Quick change gearbox with hardened and ground gears. NO plastic gears. This is a big deal. Change speeds and feeds or threading capabilities with levers, not change gears.
  • Spindle bore size. The bigger, the better. 1.5" is always better than 1". No matter how big the bore is, you will always find a situation where it is too small.
I got delayed by chores and meanwhile, @ttabbal posted most of what I was going to say. I'll go out on the limb and say, yes, at least buy the 1127. The smaller lathes just lack the features you really need to do serious lathe work. To be honest, even the 1127 is a bit light and the PM1236 is better, heavier, more rigid. I'm not sure you will benefit much from going bigger unless you have large work in mind.

I have an 11" lathe, an Austrian-built Emco Super11 CD. The cost to fully tool this lathe up could have paid for two PM1340's. Glad I got what I got but I have to say that in my opinion, a PM1236 lathe is a bargain.
 
Having swapped the stack of gears a fair number of times now, I would like to have a gearbox. They just don't seem to be a thing on the smaller machines though.

I handle that by trying to save any single point threading for the end of the project, so I can do it all at once, minimizing gear swaps.

I may well do a seperate drive motor on the feed screw for power feed. It's much more difficult to handle threading that way, but feeds are doable without too much complexity. That's a whole different can of worms though.
 
Wanted to add that when people say "half the cost of the lathe is tooling", they're not just talking about the cutters. Sure, some of the expense is in boring bars, sitting saws, drills, taps/dies, annular cutters, and so forth, but "tooling" can also include:
* tool holding : arbors, collet chucks, QCTP holders
* workholding : collets, faceplate, faceplate clamping kit, vertical milling table, 3- 4- 6-jaw chucks, dead centers, live centers, steady rest, follower rest
* setup : dial indicator and mount, 1-2-3 blocks, precision level (maybe, according to a recent thread)

Now, the PM lathes come with a lot of the workholding stuff, so you're saving a bit of money there, but you should still factor in about a grand on tooling as you learn to use the thing.

As for the lathe itself, at the size you're looking at it's probably better to go new than used (used benchtops seem to be more rare than the larger machines, and often in worse condition), and the PM ones being discussed the best way to go in my opinion. When starting out, I would have opted for the 1022; now, I would go with the 1127. It is 150% the cost, but twice the lathe in terms of quality and features (the dedicated power feed screw, cam-lock spindle, spindle bore size).
 
Thanks for all the replies! I am considering the 1127 now. I'm still worried about it just sitting in my shop collecting dust though. Maybe some lathe projects would help me learn what I can use it for for my automotive projects.
 
Lowlyslows said:
Thanks for all the replies! I am considering the 1127 now. I'm still worried about it just sitting in my shop collecting dust though. Maybe some lathe projects would help me learn what I can use it for for my automotive projects.
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Simple: Buy a milling machine. Then you will discover the truth of the axiom:

Lathe (n) - a device for making parts for a milling machine
Milling Machine (n) - a device for making parts for a lathe
 
Charles Spencer said:
Simple: Buy a milling machine. Then you will discover the truth of the axiom:

Lathe (n) - a device for making parts for a milling machine
Milling Machine (n) - a device for making parts for a lathe
Click to expand...

I thought a lathe is the only machine that can make all the parts to build a lathe..
 
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