Identify This 10EE With Only A Picture Game

[Charlieman22]

Hi all,
Looking at a 10EE and very little info available.
Description says "it cuts accurately for an old girl".
Scant - but that's what we got.
There are also two pictures.

Seller is tough to contact - perhaps not so computer savvy.
Hard to know - but judging by the two pictures and lack of responses - I get that sense.
Wondering if anyone can tease out some information or insights from these two pictures.

One pic shows the cross feed very close to the chuck.
My assumption is - this is one that allows that?
One question I have - It also says its a 1942 - but its a square dial - were they made in '42?

Price seems right - ~ $3300
-CM

 

[rabler]

Vintage machinery has what is catalogued as a 1945 brochure on the 10EE, that shows a lathe matching this configuration:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2103/19749.pdf

The lower door and power switch match. Looks like the half nut lever is wired up which is suggestive of a problem there. Also looks like a shop-made carriage dial?

Looks like a decent amount of tooling. Of course more important than the year is the condition of the ways, and if it runs. They can be converted to an AC motor w/ VFD of course.

 

[Charlieman22]

Rabler,
Good sleuthing. Thank you!
I’m new to this myself - but of course not so new as to covet a 10EE…

I suspected it’s a ‘45 or later.
Your find strengthens that view.
Ad said running and picture suggests it’s in use.
Same seller has a mill also for sale. Appears he is getting rid of his equipment.

Any others see clues or misdemeanors?

Thanks!
-CM

 

[rabler]

Not quite sure what you are referring to with "cross feed close to chuck". Most lathes will allow you to move the carriage far enough to the left that the chuck and carriage/toolpost collide (crash). Different chucks, such as collet chucks, or turning between centers, stick out farther from the spindle nose, so there isn't really a good mechanical way to prevent this.

 

[Charlieman22]

Well - that makes two of us...
In my crash course of internet digging - I read a thread about doing a test on the ways for the 10EE.
The explanation was cryptic - but basically said - if you run your thumb nail on the inside of the ways and you feel a small ledge - it was an indication of a desirable trait - denoting a machine with longer travel.
Coming at this from 40K feet - so I stored that in the back of my head and kept moving.
Didn't make any more sense to me then than now.

The seller posted two images.
For the life of me - was not really sure what the second image was depicting - and wonder(ed) if he is trying to indicate something/why he posted that pic.
I figured this was perhaps an "in the know" image showing the travel I had read about.
Sounds like I need to file that one in the "inaccurate info" can.
Still wonder a bit why that picture.

In any event:
One thing about posting here and getting dialog is you never know what you will learn/ have debunked.
Small comments can lead to details you might not otherwise know you should even ask about.
Thanks for catching that and asking.
Helpful.

- CM

 

[Ulma Doctor]

for 3300, expect some work on your part.
but once up to snuff, the lathe will be useful for years to come.
most parts are still available

 

[rabler]

In my crash course of internet digging - I read a thread about doing a test on the ways for the 10EE.
The explanation was cryptic - but basically said - if you run your thumb nail on the inside of the ways and you feel a small ledge - it was an indication of a desirable trait - denoting a machine with longer travel.

Monarch did make a longer bed version of this lathe, rare and valuable.

Fingernail test: The ways of a Monarch lathe are hardened, but will still wear. A problem with the carriage oil system will accelerate this. The front inverted V, on the surface toward the inside of the bed, is the surface most prone to wear. Often lathes are used with toolpost fairly close to the chuck, so the wear occurs more there. You can use a fingernail to feel for any slight ridges from wear, and compare along the length of the bed as the extreme ends are unlikely to have worn.

Much more likely to experience wear is the underside of the carriage since it is not hardened. This typically causes the V way to widen near the ends, so that the carriage "racks" slightly, that is it sits at a very slight angle that changes depending on which move the carriage.

In most cases these are fairly small errors and probably of little consequence to a beginning hobbyist unless extreme. They can be fixed but not trivial or cheap, as fixing worn ways requires the lathe bed to be reground.

Almost all older Monarchs benefit from having the oil system cleaned. There are two main oil systems that are completely independent. The headstock has an oil reservoir, as does the carriage apron. The carriage apron system is what oils the ways, and cross slide. It often needs work as it tends to plug up as crud accumulates inside the apron.

I would *guess* this is a motor generator model. The 10EE's were built with a DC motor turning the spindle. The advantage of a DC motor is a wide RPM range with good torque across that range. The problem is that home and industrial power is AC. The older 10EEs used a AC motor to turn a DC generator, and then that DC power drove a DC motor with some controls involved. So the cabinet underneath the lathe is packed with electronics including the AC motor, generator, and DC motor.

Obviously a complete description of the 10EE and its maintenance is beyond a single post ... Practical Machinist has a wealth of information on the 10EE, but isn't the friendliest forum, especially for newcomers.

 

[Charlieman22]

Obviously a complete description of the 10EE and its maintenance is beyond a single post ... Practical Machinist has a wealth of information on the 10EE, but isn't the friendliest forum, especially for newcomers.

Chuckled at that.
Much appreciated the insights as well as a friendly head's up.
I've done some reading there - and know there is a community of highly knowledgable.
A few very nice restores have been done and documented.

Fingernail test: The ways of a Monarch lathe are hardened, but will still wear. A problem with the carriage oil system will accelerate this. The front inverted V, on the surface toward the inside of the bed, is the surface most prone to wear. Often lathes are used with toolpost fairly close to the chuck, so the wear occurs more there. You can use a fingernail to feel for any slight ridges from wear, and compare along the length of the bed as the extreme ends are unlikely to have worn.

Much more likely to experience wear is the underside of the carriage since it is not hardened. This typically causes the V way to widen near the ends, so that the carriage "racks" slightly, that is it sits at a very slight angle that changes depending on which move the carriage.

This will be an area of focus.

$3300 for a 10EE in our area is a low price.
I expect the machine would need restoring - and would not have a conversion drive system in it. Agreed.
With the cryptic one sentence description, non-responsive seller, and added risk of being an Ebay listing, I decided to...
Buy it sight unseen.

Yup. Pushed the "buy now" button and got the confirmation.
But before anyone jumps to the obvious conclusions about the uncareful nature of my approach, there were some extenuating circumstances I offer in my defense.

- I am not really putting the entire $3300 at risk - just feels that way. The true risk is mostly my time. The parts alone could likely fetch some if not all of that asking price back for me.
- At this price - someone will scoop it quickly. Had the seller been responsive - I suspect other's would have already snagged it.
- I have a 3 month truck lease coming to an end in a few weeks. It's a 2500 deisel ram that can easily tow this home - while I still have the truck. I've recently moved a 4300 lb mill - so I have a sense of the challenges.
- I really want a 10EE...

Seller has not confirmed the purchase - so this all may be moot and I may never see it - but Ebay will protect my money if that's the case.
If I pick it up and find it's just too worn out or too big a project - I will re-sell to someone who wants to dive in deeper - hell, I could just keep it on the trailer and deliver it.

So my plan, assuming the seller confirms the sale, is to pick it up, then inspect it.
Ways and drive system are my two largest concerns.
Will start a thread and ask for some help in ascertaining it's viability.
Sound's backwards - but there is some method to my madness.

-CM

 

[rabler]

I don't fault you in the least, that is valid approach. And you have correctly analyzed and accepted the risks.
I'm in the process of rebuilding a 10EE myself, although it has stalled due to some other things happening. I paid about the same for it. Certainly be happy to share what I know if you have questions, but I'm certainly not an expert.

 

[extropic]

@Charlieman22

You've made a remarkable transition in the last few months. Very uncommon.

Congratulations on the 10EE. I hope it works out (not parts out).
If you haven't read rabler's thread on his 10EE, including custom power supply build, it's recommended reading.

One comment regarding secure transportation. I didn't mention it at the time because you got it home without incident, however your pictures of the mill on the trailer, showing only two straps, activated my pucker switch (still does, thinking about it). Please invest in at least four additional straps for the Monarch.