Is an old domestic lathe worth the same as a new import lathe?

[Downwindtracker2]

Are you a restorer or a machinist ?

Even those nice bigger lathes get worn. When I took a course in the late '80s, the college had a couple Japanese lathes Mazak and Okuma? They very nice looking, great to work with, but both were donations for tax purposes. Both were worn. That's why they got them.

If you look bearing fits, you will be wanting something tighter than .002

 

[Chuck K]

Finding an old machine that will hold 0.001 is not a real tall order. When people start talking tenths I really have to doubt that many of the new imports will do it. The ones that will are on the high end of the price spectrum.

 

[gasengin]

It really just depends where you are. If you are in a tool rich area, it's going to be no problem finding good machines given a little time. If you are not, it is really tough to shop for a lathe or a mill 600 to 1000 miles away. If it is any good, it is sold before you have a chance to get there unless you have the freedom to literally take off the next day on a 1000 mile trip to look at something that may or may not be was good as advertised. When I was looking, a couple times where I found one and was going to leave Friday after work, and they both sold before I could leave. Both were about 700 miles away.

I ended up buying a used import lathe and mill. Both were hardly used. Still had a lot of the shipping wax on them and some of the tooling had never been opened. Paid about 1/3 of new when considering they came with a fair amount of tooling. Bought them on an online auction about 750 miles away. I had been looking for a couple years and seriously shopping for about a year.

 

[gasengin]

Even those nice bigger lathes get worn. When I took a course in the late '80s, the college had a couple Japanese lathes Mazak and Okuma? They very nice looking, great to work with, but both were donations for tax purposes. Both were worn. That's why they got them.

Yah, when I was in college in the early 90's there were several old lathes with a lot of wear. I didn't know the history of the machines, but guessing WWII. I'm sure they have been gone from there a long time now. Moral of the story is, "Don't assume they are nice tight machines just because they came from a school or university"

 

[mikey]

Putting it in perspective I know several people who have spent more money in a 5 year period on consumer electronics like flat screen TV's computers, cell phones, and tablets than I have spent a lifetime on machine tools. The truth be known they'll have to replace their electronic devices another 5 times over before I'll have to replace even one of my machines.

I don't doubt that you have made some good purchases. In my area, and in many areas around the country, that is not reality. I guess you can find a gem amongst the rabble just about anywhere.

I agree re the electronics. I have a Alienware laptop my son bought for me a year back and it cost more than some lathes from PM. My son said when it breaks he'll just buy me a new one! Damned thing better not break anytime soon because if it does I'm gonna' push for a new mill!

 

[Nogoingback]

In the last year or so, I've noticed an uptick in prices for lathes in my area which is a bit of a machinery desert. The bottom price for complete
machines around here is about $1200.00, but decent looking machines or machines with tooling are now more. Here are a few examples from
today's CL:

Southbend 10K $3000.00
Logan 11" $5000.00
Craftsman 12" $2500.00
Southbend 9" $1750.00
Logan 9" $2900.00

This doesn't include bigger machines that are only purchased by the most dedicated hobby machinist, or ancient flat belt machines
that are only appealing as projects or for their historical interest.

The days of decent, usable machines for $500.00 are over, at least for this area and as the good older machines dry up that trend will
continue. (I got my Logan for $600.00, but dumped a bunch more into it to bring it back to life.) Given these facts, the better (PM)
Asian lathes represent a increasingly compelling price to value proposition. Are there still deals on American Iron available? Sure,
but they're getting harder to find, and the buyer still has to be willing to work on them.

I like the old machines, and having spent the time and money on my Logan I'm enjoying it. But as time goes on I think fewer hobbyists
will want to make the effort to purchase and support them, and since machine shops have switched to CNC, there aren't
any more in the pipeline.

My lathe was built in 1944. I think lots of people like cars from the 40's and 50's, but how many want to drive them to work?

 

[Chuck K]

A lot of shops in my area have switched to mainly CNC work but still have all of the manual machines sitting there collecting dust. They still use them now and then for small jobs but at some point alot of those machines will be moved out to make room for another modern machine. I think there are still going to be opportunities to pick up old machines. I hope you're right about the price hike because I have a few machines that have to go.

 

[Nogoingback]

I'm seeing some of that sort of thing around here: machine shops moving the manual lathes out. But, a number of them are big machines that
need space and power that only a limited number of hobbyists will buy. The 10 to 12" machines that newbs usually want don't seem to
be coming out of machine shops. Of course, around here there never was a lot of manufacturing: you guys in the Midwest always seem to
have more to choose from.

 

[projectnut]

Can you suggest such a place?

I have been a member of the Practical Machinist bulletin board for several years. Most often I visit the "General" and "Antique" forums. I was involved in a conversation about Seneca Falls machine when I mentioned my Star#20 was starting to show enough wear that it should probably be disassembled to have the ways reground. Another member chimed in alerting me to a machine that had been recently rebuilt by a member in the Chicago area.

I decided to call the member and take a look at his machine. I conned a couple other retired machinists into going along with me to make an inspection. As it turned out the machine was in like new condition (except for paint), and the asking price was reasonable. With all the accessories included I didn't even quibble on the price. The machine came with 3 chucks, a couple live centers, a quick change tool post, a steady rest, a follow rest, a 15 hp rotary phase converter, a couple drill chucks, and a couple boxes of other minor accessories.

It's a long story, but it was close to 6 months between the time I inspected the machine and the time I brought it home. It's an excellent machine with far more capabilities than my older Seneca Falls Machine. Now that everything is settled in the shop I'm in the process of finding a vendor to grind the ways on my old machine. So far the most likely candidate is Chicago Grinding and Machine Company. They were the ones that did an excellent job on the ways on the Sheldon.

Over the years I have bought other items from members of that board including machine collets, change gears, and power hacksaw blades. Everything I have purchased from members has been of the highest quality and at reasonable prices.

There are 2 forums on that board for sales. One is for machinery sales:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/machinery-for-sale-or-wanted/

The other is for tooling, parts, and accessories:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/tooling-parts-and-accessories-for-sale-or-wanted/

 

[malmac]

I was originally offered a old English lathe - but I had never had a lathe before - so didn't know what to look for.It would probably have been a better buy than the new Chinese lathe I bought instead. After six years of light work I replaced all the bearing in the head unit - ran much better - but by then I was over it. I really spent a lot of money and bought a new Colchester (yes with the pretty blue and white 600 machinery colours). One of the things I love about this lathe is the oil pump that feeds the headstock bearings and the replaceable oil filter. Yes it has lots of nice normal features - but this is one you dont see - but I know it is there - and also where all the lubrication points are.