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Jet 1236P cleanup?

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SteelTwister

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#1
Hi all,
I am essentially a newbie to machining; I worked as a lathe operator in a shop many years ago, but mostly ran an Okuma CNC. I've been wanting to make "round things" for a while now and finally found a Jet 1236P that seems to be in pretty good shape. Got it home and out of the pickup using two tractors and alot of head scratching (a story for another time :distrust:).
Now I would like to clean it up and do whatever maintenance I should to get it in good working order and keep it that way, but I'm not even sure where to start.
Can you guys give me some suggestions or point me to a thread that would help?
I'll post some pics once I take some.
Thanks!
 

mikey

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#2
Those old Jet lathes were made in Taiwan, I think, and are solid lathes. I almost bought one once but the guy thought it was made of gold and priced it accordingly. How does the lathe run? Any obvious issues?

I would just start with a general clean up with an eye for spotting problems. Any odd noises, oil leaks, broken whatever. Check the ways for damage and excessive wear near the headstock. Lightly snug the carriage locking bolt on the right top side of the saddle with the saddle near the headstock and move the saddle toward the tailstock. If it gets significantly tighter as you move it then there is wear and you can take further steps to assess how much. Check run out of the spindle and if the spindle heats up after running at high speed for about 15-20 minutes; this will tell you what the rough condition of the bearings is. Be sure the electrical stuff is in good shape and that the gears are all intact, etc.

Once you have an idea of the overall condition of the lathe you can focus on things that need doing - lubing, adjusting, etc.

Welcome to HM, by the way!
 

DAT510

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#3
SteelTwister Welcome!

If you need manuals, there are a number of them located in the Download's Section: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/categories/jet.636/

The Jet 1024/1236 Lathes were marketed under a number of names. I've found manuals from some other Branding's have more info than the Original Jet Manual. By combining information from all of them, I've been able to put together a more comprehensive manual for my little Jet 1024.

If you need parts Grizzly still sells parts for their 1237 variant. http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-37-Belt-Drive-Gap-Bed-Lathe/G9249. I was able to complete the gearing I needed for metric threads through Grizzly.

Best,

Chris
 

SteelTwister

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#5
Here are some pics of my new baby. Sorry about the blurryness - trying to hold still while taking a pic and holding a shop light at the same time. I've powered it up and it sounds good and fairly quiet with just the spindle running. More gear noise with the power feed drive engaged, but no "bad" sounds (clunk, squeal, screech, etc). Both feeds work as does the threading feed. The quick change is a little sticky but works properly as far as I can tell. No back gears which seems weird. Also, no reversing switch - not sure if that is important.
I would like some advice on what I should disassemble to check and clean everything - if there is a best order for disassembly or stuff I just should not mess with. Also what is an appropriate cleaning fluid and subsequent lubricant for the various mechanisms. Any and All advice would be HUGELY appreciated!!
Thanks for looking.
IMG_20170205_070733.jpg
My new toy!!! I think it is a 1982 vintage machine. 1236P

IMG_20170205_070733.jpg IMG_20170205_070802.jpg
The headstock gears all look to be in good shape; no missing or worn looking teeth.
Missing the back gears though; not sure why anyone would remove those.

IMG_20170205_070938.jpg
All the gears here are in good shape too. Lots of grease and gunk though. From what I've read grease is not the proper lubricant here. Can someone suggest what I should use once I clean these up??
Also, not sure what the large outboard gear is for; doesn't seem to be another gear for it to engage with. Is something missing from the banjo??
IMG_20170205_071007.jpg
I think the ways look pretty good; what do you guys think? No obvious dings and the saddle moves pretty smooth for most of the travel; gets a little tighter near the last 8" by the tailstock.
Lead screw threads still look "square" with no dings.
IMG_20170205_071019.jpg
Ways near the headstock.
IMG_20170205_071036.jpg
The power feed selector (cross or linear) is kind of sticky, but both feeds work fine. Do I need to disassemble the saddle and cross slides to clean it up? Not sure where to start with that and don't want to end up finding out "oh crap, you should never have taken that apart:guilty:".
IMG_20170205_071050.jpg IMG_20170205_071104.jpg
Can anyone explain this chuck to me? No T-handle to tighten it, but it has this knurled outer ring with dog holes around the perimeter. There is a short bar that fits the dog holes and presumably is for tightening the chuck jaws. Can't figure out how to lock the spindle to turn the knurled collar or which direction it should turn and I don't want to damage anything. Need some advice here.
IMG_20170205_071113.jpg IMG_20170205_071139.jpg
The "tool"
IMG_20170205_071206.jpg IMG_20170205_071239.jpg
The "extra" drive gear. Anyone know what it's for or if there is another gear or two missing?
IMG_20170205_071306.jpg
No slow speed pulley. Missing both stepped pulleys - does anyone have a source for these or at least a size for the motor pulley and the intermediate shaft pulley?
IMG_20170205_071443.jpg
Cross slide ways and leadscrew. The cross moves pretty smooth through the entire travel. Look OK to you guys?
IMG_20170205_071456.jpg
Cross slide ways
IMG_20170205_071628.jpg
Compound ways. Those are old chips on the surface. Compound is pretty tight throughout it's travel. I think there is a jib screw near the crank. Does that just need a little adjustment to loosen it up a bit?
 

SteelTwister

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#6
Those old Jet lathes were made in Taiwan, I think, and are solid lathes. I almost bought one once but the guy thought it was made of gold and priced it accordingly. How does the lathe run? Any obvious issues?

I would just start with a general clean up with an eye for spotting problems. Any odd noises, oil leaks, broken whatever. Check the ways for damage and excessive wear near the headstock. Lightly snug the carriage locking bolt on the right top side of the saddle with the saddle near the headstock and move the saddle toward the tailstock. If it gets significantly tighter as you move it then there is wear and you can take further steps to assess how much. Check run out of the spindle and if the spindle heats up after running at high speed for about 15-20 minutes; this will tell you what the rough condition of the bearings is. Be sure the electrical stuff is in good shape and that the gears are all intact, etc.

Once you have an idea of the overall condition of the lathe you can focus on things that need doing - lubing, adjusting, etc.

Welcome to HM, by the way!
Thanks Mike, I don't have an indicator or mag base yet - I guess those are the first tools I need to get. Gears all look good, at least the ones I can see without disassembling anything. No bad sounds when running or excessive vibration.
Not sure if I got a good deal or not; $1000 on craiglist, but that seemed to be the range for the older Atlas/Craftsman 1940-1950 vintage 10x24 lathes.
I'm excited to get this cleaned up and running well. Suggestions for cleaning fluid and lubricants would be appreciated.
 

SteelTwister

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#7
SteelTwister Welcome!

If you need manuals, there are a number of them located in the Download's Section: http://www.hobby-machinist.com/resources/categories/jet.636/

The Jet 1024/1236 Lathes were marketed under a number of names. I've found manuals from some other Branding's have more info than the Original Jet Manual. By combining information from all of them, I've been able to put together a more comprehensive manual for my little Jet 1024.

If you need parts Grizzly still sells parts for their 1237 variant. http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-x-37-Belt-Drive-Gap-Bed-Lathe/G9249. I was able to complete the gearing I needed for metric threads through Grizzly.

Best,

Chris
Thanks Chris! The manual link is a big help. I'm happy to find another Jet owner; I have not been able to find much on the internet so far about the 1980's vintage Jet's. Especially replacement parts. Do you know if the back gears and motor pulleys are available from Grizzly for this lathe? I'm missing the back gear and the stepped drive pulley for the intermediate shaft and the motor. No low speed option.
Really appreciate the advice as I'm grossly ignorant about getting the lathe into good operating order.
Thanks again,
Steve
 
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kvt

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#8
Not bad from what I see, but I am no expert, One thing I see that you can replace, is the carriage lock, the hole that you see in the second and third photo from the end, is where the lock goes. and some of the parts are still available from grizzly. like the way wipers, One is still available but the other is not, but both were still listed on the sight.
 

pdentrem

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#9
The 120/127 large gear is for inch/metric feeds and threads. The manual will explain this. The lathe looks very good to my eye. As for the back gears, one of our members has just gone through a replacement of his using Grizzly parts. A search should pop that up for you. As for the motor and pulley, a future upgrade would be VFD and. 3 phase 2 hp motor.
Pierre
 

SteelTwister

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#10
Not bad from what I see, but I am no expert, One thing I see that you can replace, is the carriage lock, the hole that you see in the second and third photo from the end, is where the lock goes. and some of the parts are still available from grizzly. like the way wipers, One is still available but the other is not, but both were still listed on the sight.
Ah, Thanks Ken. Mike suggested snugging the carriage lock to check the wear on the ways, but I couldn't find it - makes sense now!
Grizzly G9249 is the comparable model, right?
Kind regards, Steve
 

SteelTwister

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#11
The 120/127 large gear is for inch/metric feeds and threads. The manual will explain this. The lathe looks very good to my eye. As for the back gears, one of our members has just gone through a replacement of his using Grizzly parts. A search should pop that up for you. As for the motor and pulley, a future upgrade would be VFD and. 3 phase 2 hp motor.
Pierre
Thanks Pierre! I saw a youtube video of a guy that did a variable DC speed control on his Jet 1236 using a 3/4 hp DC motor. I was thinking that might be just as cost effective as finding the back gears and the missing pulleys. Any opinion on the comparative value of those options?
Steve
 

pdentrem

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#12
My lathe is a Taiwan clone of the Jet BDB-1340. Likely pre 1990 from what I was told by the second owner of it.

I did the VFD route a couple years ago. I have not touched the back gears since. I have the belts in the middle position. With a proper motor, you can get down to much lower rpms then from factory and higher within reason. 3/4 hp is a bit low for me as the factory supplied a 1 1/2 hp 220 volt motor.
Pierre

lathe1.jpg
lathe2.jpg
 

kvt

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#13
Here is the page for parts that should fit. Like has been said many were just variations. So like mine used 32211 bearing in place of the 30211 on one end and then use the 30210 on the other.
The seals were all the same, and I found those in several places. I had an inside seal out on the rear bearing and was leaking the oil out over night. but while I was at it, I took the whole thing apart, and started doing a good cleaning of everything. One other thing, I see you have missing back gear on it, the shaft and other stuff is there but the gear is missing. that would be one way to hold the spindle while tightening the chuck. That chuck reminds me of the one on my sherline lathe, but it also has holes in the main cuck body so you can hold it while turning the scroll plate which is the back knurled piece. Another way to hold it while tightening it would be a web wrench.
 

mikey

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#14
I know nothing about these lathes but, in general, I have some suggestions.

First, a lathe is not a complicated machine. Well, it is but it isn't difficult to work on. There is a logic to how things go together and a parts breakdown goes a very long way to make sure you don't get lost. See if you can find one. For stuff outside of the headstock, I would just take pics as you go and disassemble anything that needs cleaning and adjusting.

For cleaning, I prefer the least toxic and most readily available stuff. Kerosene or mineral spirits cleans well and is cheap. Wear gloves, though. WD-40 also works well for cleaning a lot of stuff. I prefer synthetic Scotchbrite to remove grit and rust; I use the 000 synthetic steel wool 3M sells and the white non-scratching pad wherever possible. Coarser grits are available if needed. I used those blue shop paper towels over paint.

I suggest that anything that slides needs to be disassembled, cleaned, verified good and then lubed and adjusted. This includes the compound, cross feed and saddle. Nothing is complicated and you won't need to precisely adjust anything except the gibs.

Your compound has tapered gibs; the round screw has a projection that fits into a slot on the gib and as you turn the screw it will move the gib in or out. Adjust to a sliding fit and no play.

I would also break down the saddle and clean everything up so you can inspect stuff. You'll find chips, hardened grease and maybe dry gears and screws. Now is the time to get it all apart, cleaned and lubed. For any screw or gear that is protected, grease usually works fine. For screws that are exposed, used oil. The manual will tell you which lubricant is appropriate. Most good lathes will have lube nipples in the necessary places; some for grease, some for oil. Usually, nothing has specified torque values on the saddle. Most everything is cast, however, so avoid really cranking down on anything. By the way, the saddle lock is just a bolt that threads into a plate. One end of the plate bears on the saddle casting and the other end bears underneath the ways. Simple to make the plate from 1/4" thick mild or stainless steel and you can either use a bolt or a Kipp adjustable lever.

For grease, I use Super-Lube. My Emco manual calls for Mobilgrease Special, which I have, but Super-Lube doesn't harden and I prefer that. For oil, I use DTE 25 Hydraulic Oil and for way oil, I use Vactra-2.

Your headstock bearings should be tapered roller bearings. To deal with that, you need the manual, sorry.

I agree that you need to find the bull gear/s if you can. The first time you thread to a shoulder on a coarse-pitched screw, you will appreciate them.

Hope this helps. Can't help with the specific pulley stuff, sorry.
 

kvt

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#15
One quick one, Anyone know what oil goes for the Tapper Roller bearings in the head, Since I am rebuilding the head, with new Bearings and seals I figure I should use the correct oil.
 

pdentrem

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#16
I use Mobil DTE Med/Heavy for the spindle. Mobil Vactra #2 Way Oil for any sliding surfaces. Climbing Gear Oil or an appropriate lube oil for the gears.
Pierre
 

DAT510

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#17
Hi Steve,

It looks like Both Pulleys are available at Grizzly. But from your pictures, it looks like your motor may have been changed. So you may want to verify shaft diameters before you order. I believe the motor shaft on my Jet is metric.

The Back gears also look to be available. http://www.grizzly.com/products/g9249/parts

Grizzly's customer service has always been good. My guess is they would be willing to measure the ID of both the Pulleys and Back Gears for you if you called, to save you the chance they don't fit.

Best,
Chris
 

tertiaryjim

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#18
Anywhere the oil is dark in color means dirt. Take it apart, inspect, clean and reassemble with clean lube.
The pictures look like everything is dirty.
Bearings use a 32wt spindle oil or a non detergent transmission fluid works well.
Edit: Should have said ISO 32 spindle oil.
Should be able to get any lube you need at a farm supply or tractor supply.

If you have a 1.5 inch through hole spindle it probably uses bearings that haven't been available for a couple of years.
The Chines bought em all up and the manufacture hasn't made another run yet.
If the spindle oil is dark then flush em out good and look for metal or brass in the flushed fluid.
A small amount of brass ( cage material ) might not be a problem but steel is.
I wouldn't pull the head apart unless there is a problem with the bearings, seals, locking pin, or pulley bushing .
May have some pictures and of the spindle assembly if you have to take it apart.

The pulley on the spindle won't be a problem until you get the back-gears but should be checked and lubed.
The pulley bushing should have a heavy weight oil like 80 or 90wt gear lube ( non detergent ) or I found a high quality low viscosity grease works great.
Just keep checking it for heat buildup. No heat, no problem!
If the pulley bushing ( brass ) is worn you can make it wobble on the spindle while the belt is loose.
It has to have about 0.0015" clearance to the spindle so a very slight amount of movement is normal.
The feed screw should be cleaned before each use but if it's been used dirty, looks like it has, then the split nut must also be cleaned.

After removing the carriage you will be able to see into the gearbox to look for problems.
 
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SteelTwister

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#19
Many thanks to all. I feel a lot more confident that I can start tearing it down and getting it in good working order now with all the great advice.
I'd like to post updates on my progress as I go. Should I add to this thread or start a new one for that?
Not sure what the preference is on this site and I don't want to clutter with new threads if that isn't appropriate.
Kind regards, Steve
 

tertiaryjim

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#20
I should still have some pictures taken when I took the spindle apart and could offer some advise if you would like and you do have to take your spindle apart.
 

kvt

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#21
Mine is in pieces right now, Waiting on weather so I can do some painting on the head before I put it back together.
One other thing, If you do not use a Link Belt for the spindle you have to take it all apart to replace the belt. Which is what the books say, Most have converted to link belts like on yours,
If I get the chance I will take pics of mine in pieces. Ken
 

SteelTwister

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Mine is in pieces right now, Waiting on weather so I can do some painting on the head before I put it back together.
One other thing, If you do not use a Link Belt for the spindle you have to take it all apart to replace the belt. Which is what the books say, Most have converted to link belts like on yours,
If I get the chance I will take pics of mine in pieces. Ken
Sounds great! I would really like to see pics of yours. I'm sure it will help.
Thanks Ken!
 

tertiaryjim

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#23
Went through my pics and sorry to say but I cant find any of the head assembly .
Hope Ken can provide them.
I can point out several things to make taking the head apart and for re-assembly if you find you have to do so.
There is one simple tool you will need to turn.
Hope your able to find the back gears. This came up some time ago and the person was able to get the proper gears but
had to bore the bronze bushings to size.
 

SteelTwister

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#24
Here is the page for parts that should fit. Like has been said many were just variations. So like mine used 32211 bearing in place of the 30211 on one end and then use the 30210 on the other.
The seals were all the same, and I found those in several places. I had an inside seal out on the rear bearing and was leaking the oil out over night. but while I was at it, I took the whole thing apart, and started doing a good cleaning of everything. One other thing, I see you have missing back gear on it, the shaft and other stuff is there but the gear is missing. that would be one way to hold the spindle while tightening the chuck. That chuck reminds me of the one on my sherline lathe, but it also has holes in the main cuck body so you can hold it while turning the scroll plate which is the back knurled piece. Another way to hold it while tightening it would be a web wrench.
The strap wrench was a good suggestion; got it loose pretty easily. Adding some holes in the chuck body seems like a good idea - I think I will do that. Gonna start taking it all apart this weekend and cleaning/lubing as recommended.
Thanks!
 

kvt

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#25
I have not made it into the shop lately. Shoulder and neck giving me a bit of a problem again. Go to pain Management next week for another epidural (sp) injection. I will have to find a place where I can lay it all out so you can see it. Mine is a bit different, but the workings are about he same. Ken
 

Shadowdog500

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#26
I bought the 11-36 version of that lathe about 3 years ago and really like it.

I cleaned mine with fluid from my parts washer. Kerosene would work about the same, but the smell gives me a headache. Put some in a $1 metal loaf pan from Dollar tree and get a get a parts brush and go to town. I spent about a day cleaning mine up.

as for your oils question:
My manual called for ISO 68 oil in the spindle bearings and apron. I bought a 2 gallon bottle of Mystil ISO-68 oil from tractor supply that will probably last me decades. http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mystik-pl-aw-hydraulic-oil-iso-68-2-gal

For way oil I decided to use SUNOCO HD WAYLUBE 1180 since it is still formulated for the older v-way machines and is a really good Way Lube. It is $35 for a five gallon bucket (which will last a hobby machinist a really long time) http://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-hd-waylube-1180/ Mobil changed the Viactra formula to make it better for newer flat way machines. They took the tackafiers out that makes it less desirable for our older v way machines.


For the change gears I use a spray lubricant for gears and chains. (I need to go out into the shop to read the can, but
LOCTITE LB 8421 Gear, Chain & Cable Lubricant seems like the same stuff)


for cutting oil I use the quart bottle of Oatleys dark sulphur cutting oil for steel (about $5 in the plumbing section of lowes and home depot)
For cutting aluminum I bought a gallon of WD-40 it works great and smells nice.


Get some of these spill proof cups to keep the cutting oils in for $7.99 for a pack of 4 cups https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FAB7I4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They made these lathes with an oddball 60mm X 8 TPI spindle thread which are impossible to find, so you may have to make your own backing plate if you change the chuck. You may want to measure your spindle threads to confirm this.

Mine could be run on either 110 or 220 with a simple wiring change. I made a PDF clearly showing the with wiring fir both when I converted mine from 100V to 220V, Ill dig it up if you need it.

Have fun with your new lathe, Chris



 
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Shadowdog500

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#27
Mine is in pieces right now, Waiting on weather so I can do some painting on the head before I put it back together.
One other thing, If you do not use a Link Belt for the spindle you have to take it all apart to replace the belt. Which is what the books say, Most have converted to link belts like on yours,
If I get the chance I will take pics of mine in pieces. Ken
Ken,

If you could take a bunch of pictures of yours in pieces that would be appreciated. A series of youtube videos of the cleaning, painting,, and rebuild process would also be great. There really isn't a bunch of readily available info on these lathes, so anything you can provide documenting your rebuild would be greatly appreciated, by a lot of people.

Thanks,

Chris
 

SteelTwister

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#28
I bought the 11-36 version of that lathe about 3 years ago and really like it.

I cleaned mine with fluid from my parts washer. Kerosene would work about the same, but the smell gives me a headache. Put some in a $1 metal loaf pan from Dollar tree and get a get a parts brush and go to town. I spent about a day cleaning mine up.

as for your oils question:
My manual called for ISO 68 oil in the spindle bearings and apron. I bought a 2 gallon bottle of Mystil ISO-68 oil from tractor supply that will probably last me decades. http://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/mystik-pl-aw-hydraulic-oil-iso-68-2-gal

For way oil I decided to use SUNOCO HD WAYLUBE 1180 since it is still formulated for the older v-way machines and is a really good Way Lube. It is $35 for a five gallon bucket (which will last a hobby machinist a really long time) http://petroleumservicecompany.com/sunoco-hd-waylube-1180/ Mobil changed the Viactra formula to make it better for newer flat way machines. They took the tackafiers out that makes it less desirable for our older v way machines.


For the change gears I use a spray lubricant for gears and chains. (I need to go out into the shop to read the can, but
LOCTITE LB 8421 Gear, Chain & Cable Lubricant seems like the same stuff)


for cutting oil I use the quart bottle of Oatleys dark sulphur cutting oil for steel (about $5 in the plumbing section of lowes and home depot)
For cutting aluminum I bought a gallon of WD-40 it works great and smells nice.


Get some of these spill proof cups to keep the cutting oils in for $7.99 for a pack of 4 cups https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FAB7I4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They made these lathes with an oddball 60mm X 8 TPI spindle thread which are impossible to find, so you may have to make your own backing plate if you change the chuck. You may want to measure your spindle threads to confirm this.

Mine could be run on either 110 or 220 with a simple wiring change. I made a PDF clearly showing the with wiring fir both when I converted mine from 100V to 220V, Ill dig it up if you need it.

Have fun with your new lathe, Chris


Man! Thanks Chris! Great information and suggestions - I really appreciate hearing that you are happy with your lathe. Is it the same vintage 1982 as I have? I'm seriously considering doing the variable speed DC motor conversion as Pierre did. My guesstimate is the cost for back gears and stepped pulleys is about the same as converting it to the DC drive. I post more pics during and after cleanup.
 

kvt

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#29
Mine had already been converted to a vfd so I have the variable speed but still use the back gear on it. Mine used smaller spindle but still 8tpi, I did wind up making some face plates, for me and a friend. Also made a Spider for doing barrels that he uses in place of the chuck. I made it out to the shop for a few and did some cleaning. Now I have to make it back out to do a little more. Did finally get a camera out there so I can take some pics. Don't really have any way to make videos for you tube, Right now the whole thing is mainily in plastic bags. Maybe I will re arrange some so that I can get them all laid out and take some pictures before I start Re assembly
 

Shadowdog500

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#30
Man! Thanks Chris! Great information and suggestions - I really appreciate hearing that you are happy with your lathe. Is it the same vintage 1982 as I have? I'm seriously considering doing the variable speed DC motor conversion as Pierre did. My guesstimate is the cost for back gears and stepped pulleys is about the same as converting it to the DC drive. I post more pics during and after cleanup.

Mine is 1983 so I bet yours also has the 60mm X 8TPI spindle.
I can't wait to see your conversion.

Chris
 
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