Lathe Rebuild, or Upgrade.

[mksj]

Knowing your budget, level of precision, and a little more information as to the quality/type of work would help provide more relevant recommendations. Are you one that wants to fix up a machine or use it? My concern with a lot of the used equipment, it is often in need of some significant rehab or it is worn out. I see so many machines that they dress up with a coat of paint and say it was "working" when it was pulled from service. Neglect to say why it was pulled or what doesn't work. Alternative is to search locally (state), often many machine shops are converting over to CNC (or closing) and you can negotiate on pricing. May take some time, but they do pop up.

 

[jwmay]

Just goes to show, no matter how great a machine is, there's always a better one. Lol.
My opinion is that a person doing paid work must be practical. Although I understand the Hardinge to be a cut above, it seems you're considering trading the devil you know, for the devil you don't.
If the Sheldon can't meet tolerance anymore, then I'd be looking to rebuild or buy new. Buying a different used machine (of any make) is a roll of the dice at best.

 

[dkemppai]

@mksj,

What kind of work, really almost anything small. Roller bearing race pullers, kids projects, precision turned and threaded parts. Grade 5 titanium, copper, brass, bronze, and steel parts, and some hard turning. Almost all of these are smaller parts. At times I need to hit a tenth, but in short parts. Mostly hobby, but some parts are paying parts of larger design projects.

I look foreword to fixing up machines, but right now there's a lot more budget than time. For example, found a dandy Bridgeport a bit over a year ago. That mill has been sitting in the same place in my shop waiting for thorough cleaning and fresh paint. (It had a complete mechanical rebuild a few years ago (no paint), and was replaced with Haas...)

Getting estimates for a complete mechanical rebuild of this lathe from $3K to $5K (all moving surfaces machined/ground/scraped etc.) Rough estimates for everything including paint is between $5K and $10K. I do understand the concerns with buying another used machine (same game I played looking for the above Bridgeport). Any new lathe would certainly have to be the right lathe, not just the first one to come by.


@jwmay,

This is well beyond the grass is greener situation. I really do like this little chunk of iron, and really don't want to get rid of it. However, this machine is letting me down and something has to be done. The real question, is it worth the $3K to $5K to make it mechanically tight? Or the $5K to $10K to make it 'new'? (10K goes a long way towards a Hardinge class machine...)

 

[matthewsx]

I have far less experience than most on here but I picked up a Harding BB4 horizontal mill a little while back and I’d love to have one of their lathes.

Since you know about machines you ought to be able to evaluate one correctly, and hvl-h class machines are often kept in good condition by their owners.

The only thing you can’t get more of in life is time, go for what you want. You may find a different gem in your search but that’s just part of the journey.

John

 

[mksj]

Helpful information, thank you. I would recommend something like the Victor mentioned, original paint, appears to have had minimal wear looking at the bed and controls, etc. I also assume you would want metric threading, which I do not see on the older models. This particular dealer seems to have numerous lathes in the category that you are looking at, going direct you can often haggle the price down given that they probably have to add 8-10% fees between eBay and credit card/PayPal. Also, it may take a sizable chunk of money to rebuild your current lathe, you have a significant down time and you will not get the value out if you decide to sell it at a later date. You will be paying quite a bit more for the Hardinge name, with other brands have similar tolerances and but not the name. I would also look ar something like a new ERL-1340/1440.

Lathes - PRECISION LATHES LIKE HARDINGE - Machinery Values

www.machineryvalues.com

11'' Swing 18'' Centers Victor 618EM PRECISION ENGINE LATHE (Ref No: 159577) - Machinery Values

11'' Swing 18'' Centers Victor 618EM PRECISION ENGINE LATHE

www.machineryvalues.com

New ACRA 1440C lathe with Mark Jacobs VFD

Earlier this summer I received my new ACRA 1440C lathe. At 2700 pounds there was no way I was wanting to deal with the unloading duties. I ended up having it delivered to a local crane service company. When it arrived they unloaded the machine from the delivery semi and loaded it on their flat...

www.hobby-machinist.com

 

[jwmay]

I really do like this little chunk of iron, and really don't want to get rid of it. However, this machine is letting me down and something has to be done. The real question, is it worth the $3K to $5K to make it mechanically tight?

Ah ok, well I'm not the guy to answer then. I use and "really do like" my little Atlas lathe. I've spent at least twice as much as practical to have it the way I want it. And I'm not done. Ha! , I would probably have it rebuilt by a professional if I wasn't afraid they'd laugh me out of the shop.

 

[dkemppai]

Ah ok, well I'm not the guy to answer then. I use and "really do like" my little Atlas lathe. I've spent at least twice as much as practical to have it the way I want it. And I'm not done. Ha! , I would probably have it rebuilt by a professional if I wasn't afraid they'd laugh me out of the shop.

A good professional will take your money to do work you want, even if it isn't 'worth it' in their eyes. lol! A buddy owns a body shop, and works on cars for guys that have sentimental attachment to the vehicles. To me putting 10K in paint on a $3500 chevy seems like a waste, but to them it's worth it in one way or another. So, no judgement from me if you wanted to rebuild it!

For kicks, I just looked at my current lathe 1950's sales price in 2022 dollars. New it would cost between $15,000 and $20,000 in today dollars! So, nothing to sneeze at when it was purchased new then. A new hardinge lathe in 2022 dollars is certainly still a more expensive lathe, but not as much as I expected taking inflation in to account. So maybe this machine is worth the mechanical rebuild. Assuming I can get the tolerances out of it, that is.

I've been looking for shops that rebuild these things, and have some rough estimates. Does anyone have any suggestions for reliable shops in the MI/WI/MN area would do a rebuild on a lathe?

 

[projectnut]

There are several shops in Illinois, particularly in the Chicago area that would be more than happy to rebuild your lathe. There's always Bourn & Koch out of Rockford Illinois. They own all the rights and patents for Sheldon machines and are a supplier of replacement parts. They aren't cheap, but they do excellent work.
Here's a link to a video tour of their facility:

If you would consider having an individual do it there's a gentleman by the name of Tom Degenhart who lives near St. Charles Illinois. He rebuilt my Sheldon MW-56-P. He did excellent work including sending the bed out to be ground. At the time the grinding was done by American Grinding out of Chicago.

Tom is a retired mechanical engineer who used to work for the Furnas Electric Company (now part of Siemens). They supplied the controls for Sheldon lathes. If you're interested in talking with him, he frequents the Practical Machinist bulletin board. His logon name is TDegenhart.

As a side note when I purchased the Sheldon from him, he offered to rebuild my Seneca Falls Star #20 lathe. It wasn't to the point it needed a complete refurbish, and I'd already gone a bit over budget buying the machine from him. Should the need arise to have the Seneca Falls I wouldn't hesitate to give him a call.

 

[jwmay]

A good professional will take your money to do work you want, even if it isn't 'worth it' in their eyes

You're right. I suppose my own sense of what is ok to spend is probably the larger factor. As soon as the quotes come in, I'd be comparing them to what else I could buy with that money. Just like you're doing. Lol

 

[dkemppai]

There are several shops in Illinois, particularly in the Chicago area that would be more than happy to rebuild your lathe. There's always Bourn & Koch out of Rockford Illinois.
...
If you would consider having an individual do it there's a gentleman by the name of Tom Degenhart who lives near St. Charles Illinois.

I'll look into these. Thanks!

From where I'm at, anywhere Illinois is pretty much a two day drive (one there, and one back). Times two trips, that gets to be a lot of miles, although it may be worth it.