Need Help Bringing An Old Elgin Turret Lathe Back To Life!

[SmokeWalker]

Hello once again folks, I must call upon your wisdom once more.

I just bought this dirty Elgin Turret lathe, and I'm trying to decide how I should get what I need out of it.

(I want this lathe primarily for small scale production. It'll probably get a couple hours use a day.)

When I bought it, it had been sitting outside on a pallet for months. Chip tray was filled with water and surface rust. Hideous thing. The motor box was dry though. The fuse/control box had been unhooked and the power was disconnected, so they didn't plug it in for me to see the engine run. After a very hair-raising trip back home, it's sitting in my downstairs neighbor's garage waiting for my next move.

I am currently trying to decide just what that next move is, and for that (!) I could use your help.

Stats:

• Elgin Turret Lathe
• (Can't find a model number anywhere. Where do I look?)
• Motor: 3ph, 3/4 HP, 220V, 1730 RPM, frame: 204, Class P, Form B
• 6 position bed turret
• 5c Collet closer and the spindle turns freely
• Very light surface rust on nearly all surfaces
• I also got a cross slide/compound better condition and does slide
• (I know nothing about electronics and am willing to hire a professional if necessary)

In no particular order:
A. Before I do any cleaning of the thing, I need to see if the thing runs, so I can either:

1. Buy a phase convertor (Which type??? One fellow at a local machine tool shop told me for a 3/4 HP motor and my use, I could probably get away with a static phase convertor and it would take years to burn up the motor.)
2. Replace the motor with a 1ph motor of similar power so you could run it off house current. (? Would it be just as simple as getting a 3/4hp or bigger 110v motor with the right shaft and fitting it into the machine?)
3. Just take the turret off, adapt the turret to fit on a lathe I already have, and scrap the rest. (The collet closer might be nice, but I need to get a collet in there and actually check it. It's all got a thin film of rust over everything.)

If I choose option 1 or 2, and I decide to keep the lathe and not scrap it–

B. I need to get it up two flights of stairs and hook it into my workshop.

I figured that I could simply take it apart and haul/have it hauled upstairs one piece at a time. It won't be pretty, but I think it could be done. At that point…

C. I'll make it look presentable, get some good pictures and make a fun little "restoration" thread out of this.

Questions:

Which option, 1, 2 or 3?
(FYI: I'm willing to spend money on a rotary phase convertor if necessary ($300-400))
Raising the turret up to the correct height (and finding a good way to lock it down) for a lathe I already had would be difficult, but possible.

 

[bpratl]

It looks rebuild able, it's a shame it was left outside. I would keep the 3ph motor and add a VFD controller which would make the lathe more verse able by adding variable speed. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Ken_Shea]

If there is not severe rust damage that makes it sad junk my choice would be clean it up and keep it original only with a VFD as bprati mentioned.

 

[jererp]

+1 on the VFD controller. I bought a KB electronics VFD because it was the easiest for me. It comes self-contained in a NEMA 1 enclosure. Will run from 1/8 - 1 HP 3PH motors using 110/220 1PH. Simple power in / power out connection, and setting some jumpers inside the box based on input voltage and motor size. You can buy them online for under $200.

 

[SmokeWalker]

It looks rebuild able, it's a shame it was left outside. I would keep the 3ph motor and add a VFD controller which would make the lathe more verse able by adding variable speed. Just my 2 cents.

+1 on the VFD controller. I bought a KB electronics VFD because it was the easiest for me. It comes self-contained in a NEMA 1 enclosure. Will run from 1/8 - 1 HP 3PH motors using 110/220 1PH. Simple power in / power out connection, and setting some jumpers inside the box based on input voltage and motor size. You can buy them online for under $200.

So gentlemen, why VFD and not a rotary phase convertor or static? It's got a high and a low speed gear inside the belt driven unit, and it would be nice to be able to control its speed with the lever and not have to go to the VFD.

And while I'm at it, does anyone have a recommendation for where to get belts? I figured I'd get some auto serpentine belts or something to replace those in the machine.

 

[Ken_Shea]

Nothing wrong at all with a RPC, they are great, that is what I use here but it is in a separate room and barely heard from where the equipment is run, they whine and it will become annoying if located right at the equipment. I also think it is the type of whine that will take it's toll on your hearing down the road but that's just an opinion.
RPC are also better suited where you have multiple equipment that needs to be run at the same time.
Forget Static converters, the cheap ones are barely worth having and the good ones will cost close to what a VFD would cost you.

 

[jererp]

You can just keep it set at 100% and use the standard machine gearing. Cheaper and quieter than a RPC. Also does some nice things like everyone soft start.

 

[SmokeWalker]

It looks rebuild able, it's a shame it was left outside. I would keep the 3ph motor and add a VFD controller which would make the lathe more verse able by adding variable speed. Just my 2 cents.

You can just keep it set at 100% and use the standard machine gearing. Cheaper and quieter than a RPC. Also does some nice things like everyone soft start.

Nothing wrong at all with a RPC, they are great, that is what I use here but it is in a separate room and barely heard from where the equipment is run, they whine and it will become annoying if located right at the equipment. I also think it is the type of whine that will take it's toll on your hearing down the road but that's just an opinion.
RPC are also better suited where you have multiple equipment that needs to be run at the same time.
Forget Static converters, the cheap ones are barely worth having and the good ones will cost close to what a VFD would cost you.

Well damn. That makes up my mind. VFD it is. I don't need any extra noise.

The question is which one should I get?

This one seems like it has the requisite "double the HP of my motor", but it says 220v, and my electrician came by yesterday to tell me that the outlets in my shop are 110v.

I asked and rewiring to get a 220v line is more trouble than me or my landlord want to get into.

This one looks like it comes in a 110v option, but it brings me to the next question:

The label on the motor says "220v". Do I need to get a voltage transformer? Is it essential? And how might it impact operational performance?
(Word on the street is that the transformer should have at least 1.5 times the max motor output which for a .75 hp motor is 839 watts?)

The idea of getting a .75 hp single phase 110v motor sounds better and better, but is it really that simple?

I'd have to machine a new pulley, since I didn't see any that come with 3/4" shafts like the original, and figure out how to mount it (Some plywood, 4 bolts and a few washers), but to my inexperienced ears, that sounds like a good long term solution. What do you think?

 

[chevydyl]

you guys should know that you should not be adjusting the frequency too much on a motor that wasnt designed for it, i have very nice Mitsubishi VFD and i have one motor that is inverter duty rated, be sure that the motor is totally enclosed fan cooled, otherwise dont drop it below 50hz for more than a few minutes, be safe using the VFD, when using the vfd on my mill i only adjust it to 70hz max, its variable speed anyway, when you slow the motor you are losing the cooling effect of the fan so intermittent use is ok but prolonged low speed can cause damage at some point, having a constant eye on heat and what not and you should be ok.

some VFDs allow 120v input with 220v output, you can even use 230v 3phase input VFDs with a single phase 220v input, but you have to size the amperage output right, there is a formula to use to get it right, since you would only be using 2 legs of input power i think its something like you lose a 3rd of output rated amps, so size it to meet your motor requirements. dont take what i said above to scare you from using the VFD to adjust speed, you just need to be mindful of what you have and what they are safely capable of doing, spinning a motor at 150hz that is rated for 60hz may just throw the rotor through the armature, or it might burn up the windings, my motors have inverter duty wires with insulation capable of handling the extra heat and what not

 

[bpratl]

I can run my VFD down to 15 Hz for hours and the motor does not get hot due to a large 110 Volt fan mounted on the back of the motor.