Pin Gage Question

Everyone has different needs. Personally, I often find myself wanting to measure a bore of, say, 0.4870" +0/-0.0002. But I can't think of any occasion where I'd want to measure a bore with a +0.0002/-0 tolerance, or measure, say, a 0.4876" bore (tenths accuracy). I might want to lap a bore/shaft pair to get the desired fit, but I wouldn't often (ever?) need to actually measure a bore diameter to tenths.
If I am checking a hole diameter with pins separated by .001", the best I can say regarding the diameter is larger than X and smaller than X +.001" IF I have both plus and minus pins, then I can place a hole diameter between X +.0002" and X - .0008". While for most applications, this degree of precision isn't necessary, when I am aiming for an interference fit overshooting a hole diameter almost a thousandth can be problematic.
 
How are you measuring a hole to 0.0002" tolerances?
I’m using pins with two tenth tolerances, but using them to measure bores in one thou increments.

Trust me, if you can fit a pin into a hole without tools, that hole is a smidge larger than your pin whether you use plus or minus pins.

If I fit a pin marked 0.500” from a minus set into a hole and it’s a tight sliding fit, then the bore is likely pretty close to a half inch diameter. If I use a plus pin it’s guaranteed to be larger.
 
Hello all. Starting my travels down the machining path. I wanted to know what others thought about cheapo pin gages versus premium? Has anyone tried the cheap stuff and checked if they are actually within tolerances?
I've been looking at some Vermont Gage and Meyers Gage sets on Ebay.
I like good tools and but don't see myself using pin gages everyday so thought I might get by with a cheap set.
I guess also apply that to gage blocks although I can see where they might be used more.

Thanks in advance for any replies.
I have a set of Accusize small pins which check out good and they were reasonable.
 
I have a relatively cheap couple of sets that cover from some fraction of a mm (0.5mm?) up to 10mm. I got them from AliExpress.

I haven't used them yet but I can take a sample and use my mic to give you an idea of how consistent and accurate they are.

I'll pop down to my garage in an hour or so and let you know what I find.
You might check Amazon and Accusize stuff when looking for this sort of thing, I have had good results from them. Ali/Alibaba is the Chinese Amazon and I do not mean they sell Chinese stuff, I mean they are China based so I tend to try to avoid them.
 
A lot of things have plus tolerances, holes for bearings and couplings for example
Yes, that's what I meant by QA/metrology vs. actual machining/boring.

If I was a QA inspector, I'd absolutely want expensive, tight tolerance, regularly lab-calibrated plus and minus pins in a temperature controlled lab. For that application, even using two pins to measure the diameter of a hole would be disallowed because of tolerance stacking.

For all of my (and I strongly suspect, your) hobby machining (vs QA) needs, though, a set of minus pins suffices.

I suggested that if the OP wanted to simply bore holes to accurate dimensions, then a set of minus pins to from 0.061 to 0.0500" would serve him well. I stand by that recommendation, but I'm just some rando on the internet. Use your best judgement.

You guys go ahead and buy the most expensive, highest quality plus and minus pins you can find, measure your holes with three pins and CAD or back-of-the-envelope math, and aim for H7 fits and micron accuracy if you can. Knock yourself out. It's a hobby and sounds like fun. Personally, I have more fun aiming for (and achieving within a few tenths) the closest 0.001". I'm demonstrably able to make parts that work well with good precise feel, which is good enough for me.

Respectfully though, accurately measuring a bore to an absolute tenths values requires better equipment and environment than I possess, and really doesn't seem necessary in a hobby shop. I wouldn't find that process enjoyable even if I were capable. I am able to measure the diameter of a shaft to tenths with a good micrometer, but even that is hard to repeat (without temperature control and really clean parts -- an oil film has a dimension, for example). Measuring a bore is significantly more difficult, even with expensive bore gauges and the like.

I'm absolutely capable of machining two particular mating parts such that they fit each other with less than 0.0005" radial clearance, but it's a touch/feel thing. My point is that when actually making parts, you gradually increase the diameter, it never decreases. Making parts that fit is very different than accurately measuring/verifying specific numeric dimensions (the actual numeric dimension is less important). In fact, the actual real-world dimension of a given pin doesn't even matter to me as long as it mics the same (with the same mic) as the shaft that is intended to go into the hole.

Three pin tricks and the like are fun to think about to get arbitrary tenth accuracy, but tolerance stacking makes me suspicious that the results are truly as accurate as the math might lead one to believe. I've found that even when I do try to manually machine to tenths accuracy, I'm usually fooling myself (and trying to get repeatable results is invariably an exercise in frustration).

The main time I'm particularly persnicketty with bore diameters is when the bore is intended to hold the external race of a bearing, and even then the danger is absolutely overshooting not undershooting. I get about 0.0002" runout from the bearings in the headstock of my lathe, yet I'm still somehow able to make do with my modest minus pins. If I was making a bore to hold a 10mm H7 bearing (up to +18um tolerance) for example, I'd bore until a 0.394" minus pin just fit into the hole and consider it close enough.
 
I’m using pins with two tenth tolerances, but using them to measure bores in one thou increments.

Trust me, if you can fit a pin into a hole without tools, that hole is a smidge larger than your pin whether you use plus or minus pins.

If I fit a pin marked 0.500” from a minus set into a hole and it’s a tight sliding fit, then the bore is likely pretty close to a half inch diameter. If I use a plus pin it’s guaranteed to be larger.
OK, so you are using a subjective measurement and can’t say for sure you are within that tolerance. That would never pass muster in the real world, but for a hobby is good enough in most cases.
 
OK, so you are using a subjective measurement and can’t say for sure you are within that tolerance. That would never pass muster in the real world, but for a hobby is good enough in most cases.

If that’s how you want to think about it. I’m happy to machine a part and send it off to a lab for inspection if you like. Pretty sure I can hit any realistic “real world” tolerance for a bore just with minus pins.

But yes, I’m in it for fun. Are you?
 
Yeah, I’ve had good luck with their stuff, too. Reasonably priced, fairly well made, and packaged well.

It’s a Canadian company but their stuff is available on Amazon in the US. I’m sure much of it is manufactured offshore, but they seem to have decent quality control. I’ve not bought pins from them, but I’ve kept everything I did buy from them.
 
Yeah, I’ve had good luck with their stuff, too. Reasonably priced, fairly well made, and packaged well.

It’s a Canadian company but their stuff is available on Amazon in the US. I’m sure much of it is manufactured offshore, but they seem to have decent quality control. I’ve not bought pins from them, but I’ve kept everything I did buy from them.
I have quit a few items from them and like them all. the only real second though on anything I bought from them is my gauge blocks which are accurately ground but the finish isn't good enough that they can be ringed...
 
If that’s how you want to think about it. I’m happy to machine a part and send it off to a lab for inspection if you like. Pretty sure I can hit any realistic “real world” tolerance for a bore just with minus pins.

But yes, I’m in it for fun. Are you?
You’re missing the point. It’s not about whether you are using plus or minus gage pins. By using one pin, your measurement is subjective to how it feels. Perfectly fine for a hobby shop when close enough is good enough, but you can’t claim you are within tolerances with one pin.

I only have a set of minus pins myself, they can be used just fine to measure tolerances if you are ok with the lower tolerance being up to 0.0002” undersize, or using one pin size larger to make sure you are within tolerances. I’m not arguing that point, but you need to use two pins to determine your range with gage pins to take the subjectivity out.
 
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