Pin Gage Question

RJSakowski said:
Throw into the mix, the need being CE marked in the EU. In order to CE mark a product, you have to have a quality system, e.g. ISO9000 for example , in place and the products need to be tested and approved by certified agencies. No small business is going to jump through those hoops.

It took the company I worked for 25 years ago the better part of a year and well over $100K to get our ISO9001 certification and many thousands to run through the testing/certification process for each product.

Since Brexit, I don't know if the UK a still requiring CE marking but more than likely it is.
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Interesting, when I was working on getting UL and CSA certifications for some equipment we were importing from Europe, I was told CE was a self certification, I had no idea it required ISO9001. That right there is reason enough not to sell to Europe unless you will be getting a huge increase in sales.
 
Ischgl99 said:
Interesting, when I was working on getting UL and CSA certifications for some equipment we were importing from Europe, I was told CE was a self certification, I had no idea it required ISO9001. That right there is reason enough not to sell to Europe unless you will be getting a huge increase in sales.
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The idea with CE marking is that each and every article manufactured complies with all the regulations set. This can be done in two ways. One, you can send each article out for exhaustive testing prior to sale or two, you can submit representative samples of the product for testing. The latter requires that you provide some assurance that every article you manufacture is essentially the same as those sent for testing.

This is where ISO9000 comes in. ISO9000 is a quality assurance program comprised of multiple elements that demonstrate that you have a well defined set of practices covering a multitude of activities that guide you through the consistent manufacturing of your product from purchasing incoming materials to final inspection and addressing customer feedback. Evidence of continued compliance with your quality system is done through your quality assurance records, through internal audits, and audits by a notified body like TUV Essen (the one we used). Any audit noncompliance's have to be satisfactorily answered within a set period of time or you will lose your certification and the ability to CE mark.

An interesting note is that having ISO9000 certification doesn't mean that you make a quality product, just that you make a consistent product. You will note that virtually everything coming out of China has a CE mark.

It is an expensive process and even though we were a $6M/yr company, we delayed as long as possible to undertaking that course. The annual or biannual audits alone could run into the tens to hundreds of thousands, I can't imagine that Clough42 would even consider going that route.

Note also that for simple devices, self certification is possible. Anything electrical has to pass a barrage of various electrical tests though and they require expensive equipment so that type of testing is farmed out.

The automotive industry has their own version of quality system, as does aeronautics. A lot has changed with regard to ISO9000 since I jleft the industry twenty years ago. As I understand it, the emphasis shifted more towards continuous quality improvement but the fact remains, you don't ship to the EU without a CE mark. (Even bananas and cucumbers are CE marked.)
 
RJSakowski said:
The idea with CE marking is that each and every article manufactured complies with all the regulations set. This can be done in two ways. One, you can send each article out for exhaustive testing prior to sale or two, you can submit representative samples of the product for testing. The latter requires that you provide some assurance that every article you manufacture is essentially the same as those sent for testing.

This is where ISO9000 comes in. ISO9000 is a quality assurance program comprised of multiple elements that demonstrate that you have a well defined set of practices covering a multitude of activities that guide you through the consistent manufacturing of your product from purchasing incoming materials to final inspection and addressing customer feedback. Evidence of continued compliance with your quality system is done through your quality assurance records, through internal audits, and audits by a notified body like TUV Essen (the one we used). Any audit noncompliance's have to be satisfactorily answered within a set period of time or you will lose your certification and the ability to CE mark.

An interesting note is that having ISO9000 certification doesn't mean that you make a quality product, just that you make a consistent product. You will note that virtually everything coming out of China has a CE mark.

It is an expensive process and even though we were a $6M/yr company, we delayed as long as possible to undertaking that course. The annual or biannual audits alone could run into the tens to hundreds of thousands, I can't imagine that Clough42 would even consider going that route.

Note also that for simple devices, self certification is possible. Anything electrical has to pass a barrage of various electrical tests though and they require expensive equipment so that type of testing is farmed out.

The automotive industry has their own version of quality system, as does aeronautics. A lot has changed with regard to ISO9000 since I jleft the industry twenty years ago. As I understand it, the emphasis shifted more towards continuous quality improvement but the fact remains, you don't ship to the EU without a CE mark. (Even bananas and cucumbers are CE marked.)
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Slightly sarcastic reply but.... (aimed at the rules in general not you R J)


You could sell the stuff through china then you could just stamp it with China Export mark and it's all ok :clown:

1706365004545.png
 
stupoty said:
Slightly sarcastic reply but.... (aimed at the rules in general not you R J)


You could sell the stuff through china then you could just stamp it with China Export mark and it's all ok :clown:

View attachment 475872
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Wow! I didn't know this. As I recall, there were severe penalties for applying what appears to be the CE mark in an attempt to circumvent CE regulation.
 
RJSakowski said:
Wow! I didn't know this. As I recall, there were severe penalties for applying what appears to be the CE mark in an attempt to circumvent CE regulation.
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The china mark doesn't give it any certification just adds confusion and also disadvantages anyone who is complying with the standards , the amount of not even no compliant but quite dangerous items imported to the eu and uk from china is quite high.

Have you come across the sottish U tuber big clive ? He has a hobby of making videos about either fake or dangerous (or both) products imported via ebay or other wholesalers.

A common example is a seemingly innocent torch momoney


Stu
 
I would expect that the china export mark was simply to circumvent CE
stupoty said:
The china mark doesn't give it any certification just adds confusion and also disadvantages anyone who is complying with the standards , the amount of not even no compliant but quite dangerous items imported to the eu and uk from china is quite high.

Have you come across the sottish U tuber big clive ? He has a hobby of making videos about either fake or dangerous (or both) products imported via ebay or other wholesalers.

A common example is a seemingly innocent torch momoney


Stu
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certification. It is definitely misleading. I don't know this for sure, but I believe here , it would be a copyright violation a huge fines and/or lawsuits would result.

I haven't seen any of Big Clive's videos but have seen instances of Chinese USB chargers in the UK catching fire.

My understanding of the CE mark was it was originally set up to equalize the playing field amongst the European Community members.
 
RJSakowski said:
The math is an impediment, certainly. I get around that by drawing the three pins and hole in CAD. By setting the required tangency of the four circles, I have only to dimension the hole. I usually will try to select three adjacent pin sizes. The error in using three pins separated by .001" rather than three identical pins is less than a tenth of a tenth. The hole diameter will be 2.1547 x the middle pin diameter.
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Here's a spreadsheet where you can enter the diameter of 3 pins and find the diameter of hole they will fit in. It includes and adjustment for nominal, minus, and plus pins.

There's some examples, pictures, and links in the spreadsheet to illustrate how to use it.

docs.google.com

Gage pin tuples - Public

Sheet1 Enter Pin gage diameter,(Mathematicians Pin gage,love radii),Curvature Circle,"D",Adjustment,D,R,K 1,1.000,-0.0002,0.9998,0.4999,2.0004 2,1.000,-0.0002,0.9998,0.4999,2.0004 3,1.000,-0.0002,0.9998,0.4999,2.0004 Solving for,Interior Circle (pos),Circumbscribing Circle (neg),Example: diam...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
 
RJSakowski said:
From the article below, I gather that for the most part, the "China Export" logo is indeed a CE mark as required for products imported into the EU and while there are transgressions, these are removed from the marketplace when found and penalties can be assessed.
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I suspect that legal liability and testing compliance from something sold direct from China via ebay, amazon, or temu, etc is basically nonexistant. I know one PhD in engineering who is/was employed somewhere in Asia by a well known patent and trademark (dolby?) and is paid (amongst other things) to go to trade shows and hand out cease and desist letters to products he finds carrying their trademark that are not licensed. At least the tradeshow exhibitors had to be somewhat established companies. The problem with assessing penalties on most of these website imports is a lot of it is shipped by some guy out of his garage. He'll fold and be working in a different garage under a different name instantly at the hint of fines, etc.
 
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RJSakowski said:
From the article below, I gather that for the most part, the "China Export" logo is indeed a CE mark as required for products imported into the EU and while there are transgressions, these are removed from the marketplace when found and penalties can be assessed.
www.europarl.europa.eu

Parliamentary question | Answer to Question No P-5938/07 | P-5938/2007(ASW) | European Parliament

Answer to Question No P-5938/07
www.europarl.europa.eu www.europarl.europa.eu
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As far as I understand it the CE mark is self authorised and maybe some of the eu states are harder on the unsafe things but their is a massive amount of non compliant stuff getting into the uk market , an example I have had myself are the non fused plugs on mains leads , some are just a little head scratching though like the fake replaceable fuses in a plug that aren't in the circuit.

A petition on banning single use vapes go enough for a discussion in parliament,
1706392758068.png

V's what the discussion was titled.

1706392818156.png

Now I don't know but why are they discussing what to do about illegal stuff ?

I thought that was why it was illegal ? :rolleyes:

Stu

p.s.
Sorry for dragging it off topic :oops2:
 
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