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Problem with pm932m quickly resolved by Matt

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umahunter

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#1
Well lil over a month ago the collet stop screw on my mill sheared off and my drawbar was stripped no problem called pm they sent me a new drawbar said didn't need collet screw turns out that screw was the only thing allowing me to use the mill without the screw you couldn't tighten the collet just spins so after doing several tests figured taper wasn't ground right needed to be replaced pm doesn't carry this part so had to come from the factory so over a month of emailing back and forth have a mill I can't use and I sold my other mill like 2 days before this all happened so finally today a box shows up from china with random freaking parts not the part to repair my machine :( I need a new spindle and receive 2 handles a quill dro some electrical part couple face plates and an e stop button complete bs :( 20180507_154214.jpg



EDITOR'S NOTE:

Matt from PM resolved this guy's problem as quickly as he could, to the satisfaction of the OP.
This is not made abundantly clear from the tone of the OP's post, but it is, in fact, what happens.
On H-M, vendors who provide excellent service are treated fairly by our staff, and our members.
 
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markba633csi

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#2
Talk to Matt, he has a good rep for taking care of his customers
 

7milesup

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#3
Just curious... how do you know the spindle taper was incorrect and not the R8 collets themselves? Maybe the mill is fine and the collets are bad?...
 

Eddyde

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#4
Also, be sure all the screw is removed, if there is a little bump sticking out, it might prevent the collet from seating properly.
That damn screw was the first thing I removed on my mill...
 

Clock work

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#5
In the very small off-chance there is some work-holding best practice missing from your repertoire (respectfully) maybe something in here might be useful now or in the long term. Good luck.

Preventing Collet Slip - Tormach
 

BFHammer

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#6
Double check the length on your drawbar. It’s possible that the threaded end of your drawbar is bottoming out in the collet not allowing it to draw fully into the spindle.

On my PM932 I found that the drawbar was either just a few millimeters too long or the collets were a few mm too shallow.

I cut a small spacer to fit between the nut of the drawbar and the top of the quill. Got me happily milling again although a new drawbar is on my to do list.

Good luck and let us know what happens.
 

Eddyde

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#7
Double check the length on your drawbar. It’s possible that the threaded end of your drawbar is bottoming out in the collet not allowing it to draw fully into the spindle.

On my PM932 I found that the drawbar was either just a few millimeters too long or the collets were a few mm too shallow.

I cut a small spacer to fit between the nut of the drawbar and the top of the quill. Got me happily milling again although a new drawbar is on my to do list.

Good luck and let us know what happens.
Makes sense, the collets were never being tightened fully in the first place, thus causing the set screw to shear off. Spindle replacement might not be necessary.
 
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umahunter

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#8
me and a friend who makes custom mold has several cnc machines and has also bought from pm and was looking at purchasing the same mill after seeing mine and wanting another manual mill tried multiple things. frankly recovering from surgery I wouldn't have been able to do it alone. the collets worked fine in other mills. we used two different draw bars spacers reworked one draw bar etc and multiple r8 tools everything barely made any contact in the taper after blueing. there was a line about the half the width of a pencil line of contact at the base of the taper. you could crank a tool down so tight you'd need a big hammer to knock it loose and one turn of the draw bar would fall right out you could hammer a collet or whatever into the spindle with a dead blow and block of wood several times collet would fall right out . We chased all the threads ran taps through the collets trust me we did everything possible and then some and sent video to Matt trust me tearing apart and repairing a couple month old machine is the last thing I wanna do recovering from double back surgery
 
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umahunter

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That's why we figured the collet screw sheared because that was the only thing allowing a collet to tighten after that you had to be able to hold anything to get it to tighten it was a lot of work and usually took two to get something to tighten we spent about 3 hours doing every test we could think of before figuring that's the problem a collet should have more than a couple percent engagement in a taper
 

Bob Korves

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#10
It sounds like the drawbar may be too long or is otherwise bottoming out in the collet threads. A quick check is to put a washer or three on the drawbar and try again and see how that works. My drawbar for R8 collets engages the collets about 1", and that is just about the length of engagement limit.
 
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umahunter

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#11
Read above posts that was the first thing tried
 

Eddyde

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#12
Yep looks like you ruled out all the other possibilities, it must be the spindle taper. I'd call PM and insist on speaking to Matt directly.
 

COMachinist

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#13
My PM-932 pdf doesn’t even have a collet screw. I had to make a new drawbar from a piece of 1144 and single point the threads so it's like glass threading the collet. I can’t remember if the mill ever had a collet screw in the spindle. Where do you look to find the screw? I have never seen it.
CH
 

chiroone

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#14
I own the 835s and while I haven’t had any of the problems described above. I did do a quick inspection of the machine to the extent I could with this neat little tool from Harbor freight.

https://www.harborfreight.com/digital-inspection-camera-62359.html

I was able to check in the spindle and see that the collet screw was just in enough to allow the collet to slide in. this is a neat little tool if you want to check in an area that you cannot normally access. Yes, it’s about 75 bucks, but it come in real handy
 
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umahunter

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The other thing we noticed was odd was when tightening the draw bar it was binding up on something. you could pull the draw bar from the machine and screw it into a collet silky smooth. But the second you put them both in the machine it would bind up some like when there's grit or a dinged up thread which lead us to chasing all the threads running taps in the collets cleaning etc. running the draw bar back and forth in the collet with drill and socket and lots of oil so it was super smooth screwing together then once back in the machine it would bind up again lol it was infuriating I had my friend and my helper do it to make sure I wasn't trippen
 
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umahunter

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#16
My PM-932 pdf don’t even have a collet screw. I had to make a new drawbar from a piece of 1144 and sigle point the threads so it like glass threading the collect. I can’t rember if the mill ever had a collet screw in the spindle. Where do you look to find the screw? I have never seen it.
CH
the collet stop screw is just a dog point set screw it you've never seen one it's just a set screw that's turned down on the end to fit in a slot etc. if your taper is correct it's like most machine tools and not needed because it's held tight by the taper itself. if it's a lil loose it keeps the collet from spinning for just a second until it engages the taper if you go to the online manual there's a page on its location and how to adjust it
 

Cadillac

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#17
If you blued a known good collet and only got a pencil line of contact that's your problem. That's why the set screw sheared. All torque was on the screw a pencil line of contact on a taper will not hold. The taper in the spindle needs to be ground to the correct taper. Maybe a reamer did you say it's a r8?
 

Cadillac

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#18
As for your drawbar if they go together good off the machine. Then "bind" while trying to use in machine. First when you pull the drawbar out is their crude on the thread? Check alignment of drawbar centerline?
 

TomS

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#19
Bent drawbar maybe? Might explain why the drawbar and collets screw smoothly together out of the machine but bind up when in the machine.
 

Cadillac

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#20
Bent drawbar would be easy to check. Just roll on a flat surface see if it wobbles. Their can be a little but should be minimal.
 
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umahunter

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#21
Still waiting apparently my parts were sent to someone else and I got his and he's gone on business so he can't send them. I was offered a refund and I can pay the difference for a bigger machine lol which does nothing for me. if I wanted the more expensive machine I would have done that in the first place. I ordered the machine and got everything setup so I would have an extra source of income while recovering from back surgery. besides what I saved since I'm self employed because that's something I could still do was sit at my lathe and mill and do small light stuff but since this happened I've lost out on extra income since I sold my other mill like 2 days before this all happened which left me screwed they ordered another spindle from the factory this is getting very old
 

Cadillac

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#22
Look at the positive though! s***ty situation for sure. But they're working with you and you'll have a spare spindle. Since you know they're shipping one out. It sounds like a perfect opportunity for you to try and regrind the original. Alittle learning, alittle practice, you never know you could surprise yourself!
 

RJSakowski

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#23
Considering, your first drawbar stripped and the replacement drawbar threads with difficulty in the spindle, my guess is that the R8 socket was not machined correctly. The draw bar is long enough that a slight bend would still allow it to screw into the collet but a misaligned R8 socket would prevent the drawbar from starting into the collet threads properly. It would also be a prime suspect for the threads stripping. Looking at your old posts, you have had this problem from day one.

I find that providing hard evidence of issues helps dramatically with getting speedy resolutions. One bit of armament for you would be to measure runout of the R8 socket and/or a test pin mounted in the spindle. I would measure the runout close to the face of the collet and several inches from the face. If you have an angular misalignment, the runout should increase dramatically as you move away from the collet.

Since the machine is only five months old, if it were me, I would press for a replacement spindle shipped out with expedited shipping. If they can't resolve the problem in a speedy manner, they should be shipping a new machine, picking up the shipping both ways. PM ppears to have a good reputation in the forums that I visit. I'm sure that they don't want to see their reputation tarnished.
 

RJSakowski

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#24
BTW, it looks like the PM932 is the same as the Grizzly G0755. I had to replace the set screw in the 755 as it had worked in with use, preventing collets from being seated. I machined a dog point on a socket head cap screw so the point was properly positioned when the screw was fully seated. This preventing the screw from moving inward and interfering with the collet.
 

qualitymachinetools

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#25
I just want to comment, yes the customer has been waiting, but I have been trying like hell to get it resolved.

1. Had his machine for about 4 months, said he had a problem, said they think its the spindle. No problem, said I will send him a spindle, this was at the beginning of the month. I still dont know 100% if thats it, but a person I know from the forums was helping him, he said thats probably what it is, I never questioned it. Not worth it, would rather just fix the problem.
2. Spindle sent from the factory about 10 days later, should deliver 3-4 days. Not a big deal. He did not receive it, so he emailed me.
3. According to tracking that anyone can see, some problem with customs hold up, not sure of the delay, tracking changed after a couple days, on the way.
4. Delivered, said the parts were wrong. I emailed the people at the factory, they said no way, another shipment was sent to another customer the same day, his has no customs hold up so it was delivered 4/30. I have never had a problem with this factory before, they said it was fedex or customs that mixed them up. Either way, I don't know, it happened. Never heard from that other customer that he had the wrong parts, so I emailed him, no reply. Called and he said he was out on the road working, would check with his son. I did not hear back. Already ordered a new spindle, and on the way, the customer knows this and has that tracking.

I also was also looking to have his spindle ground to fix the taper, I have a local place that can do that. But he did not have it out yet to send to me, so that was not an option. Again, I was trying to get him going.

And the offer I made was to send it back and exchange towards another machine because he kept saying he was in dire need of a mill. I tried to have options. Or send it back for a refund if you arent happy. Thats fine too. Whatever you want. I'm easy.

A model I mentioned was the 833T. Stuff like this doesnt happen on machines from Taiwan. I had it in stock. But they cost more.

Chinese machines are OK, Taiwan machines are great. To be honest, I wish I didn't have to sell Chinese machines. But people buy them because they are cheap. Every single day I am on them about quality. Every single day its something. The ones we have from China are a lot better than places who are not on them about quality, but China is China.

Yes it is taking a lot longer than I wanted it to, but I am doing what I can to get it there. It sucks when I have to depend on others half way around the world, who knows who made the first mistake, who knows why the other customer will not get back to me.

I would not be happy either, it sucks, but the new one is almost there. It sucks as bad for me, I probably have 50 emails back and forth about a damn spindle that should be so easy, I send one email to order, they send me tracking, and delivered. But no, someone had to screw up somewhere, and this happened. The best part? I pay for 2 spindles. Its never their fault.

And I said I wanted the old spindle back, because I want to see what happened and try to prevent that in the future. Ill send it back and you can do what you want with it after I see it.

I would post the tracking here, but it shows their personal addresses when you do track it, and I don't want to give that out. But he is free to do that if he would like.

Want to avoid all of this? My advice, buy one of our machines from Taiwan. If I didn't have to sell machines from China, my life would be a hell of a lot easier.
 

MarkM

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#26
Your a straight shooter Matt. Things are out of your control. A bad day for a shift overseas and you get the brunt of it. Sometimes patience is needed on the customers end to give you a chance to resolve things. It s a hard place to be in in today s world. Blown away by your honest response. Good luck to both of you!
 
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wrmiller

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#27
Want to avoid all of this? My advice, buy one of our machines from Taiwan. If I didn't have to sell machines from China, my life would be a hell of a lot easier.
The worst part is the person who buys a cheap(er) Chinese machine and expects it to be the same quality level of the Taiwan machine. And then complains loudly/cries when it isn't. And it's all your fault Matt... ;)

Hope you have a better day today, and thanks for the explanation.
 

qualitymachinetools

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#28
I have no problem with people expecting it to be right, even though its cheaper, I want it to be right too. But if its not, I do what I can to fix it, sometimes it takes a bit of time, like in this case. But its not a case of me sitting around and ignoring people or forgetting to order something (Like so many stories I hear about with some other machinery companies). Its just a case of what was in the last post. If everything was right all the time, that would just be too easy, I'd be sitting on a beach somewhere a lot more often ha ha All I can promise is that if there is a problem, it is taken care of. Maybe not overnight, but as fast as we possibly can, depending on others. Emailing the people at the factory 10 times a day isn't going to make that fedex plane move any faster. I wish I could do that.

I deal with the made in China Price and wanting Made in Taiwan quality every day. Nothing to do with this customer, I just mean customers overall, the machines, and people from Taiwan are much more of a pleasure to deal with. There are a few things here and there but overall not much. And the customers who buy the machines from Taiwan normally only call to tell me how nice they are and they are glad they spent the extra money.
 

ch2co

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#29
Matt
You probably have it listed, but how do I as a buyer know when I’m shopping on line which machine is from Taiwan and which is from China?
 

qualitymachinetools

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#30
If its from Taiwan, it will say Taiwan. If not, then its from China. They are the only 2 choices, 95% of what you see out there is from China if it is from anyone else, most companies do not have the higher end machines from Taiwan, but we do have some. I am working on more, but its a slow process. And the price is higher for sure
 
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