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QCTP holder

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DiscoDan

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#1
I am looking at the holders on the Aloris site as a starting point to figure out which one I would need for my 12x36 Craftsman with the commercial saddle and cross feed. Do I need AXA, BXA or CXA? I am not at home so I can't measure it.
 
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Lordbeezer

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#3
Think after you measure you might see a axa might fit better.
 

Dabbler

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#4
On my 12X36, the AXA works well. Mime *can* take a BXA, but the cost of the holders and lack of vertical adjustment room makes an AXA the right one for me. It works fine.
 

DiscoDan

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#5
Dabbler, do you have the commercial cross slide or the non-commercial? It looks like the non-commercial one is taller than my commercial. I have the measurements so I guess I will find out when I get home.
 

DAT510

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#6
The important measurement is from the top surface of your compound to the Center Line of the Chuck, as it determines what size QCTP will fit.

The Shars image below is a good example.

 

DiscoDan

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#7
That is very helpful Dat510. I will have to check out their site too.
 

ELHEAD

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#8
BXA would be my choice................:beer:
Used BXA on mine against much sage advice on this forum. Have been very pleased. Bought used w/5 tool holders for less than 75$. Happy happy happy
Dave
 

Dabbler

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#9
Dave, If it fit my lathe I would have considered it. You got a great find! Under those circumstances, I'd have done the same if I had the height.
 

DiscoDan

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#10
Looks like AXA will work. From top of cross slide to center of chuck us about 1 1/8". Now to find and buy one! Thanks everyone. 1533001023065-62738855.jpg
 

DiscoDan

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#11
Follow up question. Wedge type or piston type? Pros and cons?
 

Norseman C.B.

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#12
Wedge is the better holder of the two IMO. I've used both.................
 

DAT510

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#13
The action of the Wedge QCTP's Locks the Tool Holder both against the height adjuster (downward pressure) and against the dove tails (outward pressure). IMO Better.

The Piston Style applies only outward pressure against the dove tails, and you have to trust the tool holder is seated against it height adjuster.

Both styles use the same holders, so the only savings is with the initial purchase of the tool post.
 

Bob Korves

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#14
If you want to save some money, look at the sets for sale at CDCO and at All Industrial Tools. Compare the delivered prices there with the ones on eBay, and go for it. Import tool posts and holders are not necessarily of consistent quality, but the low pricing makes it worth the gamble. Return for exchange or refund anything you do not like.
 

Downunder Bob

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#15
I find the BXA fits my 12 inch lathe perfectly, but to be safe you really need to measure. Ilke that the BXA is bigger, therefore stronger more rigid. I've not tried the piston type, but it does appear that they would not be as good as the wedge type.

I bought a genuine Aloris with a few tool holders, plus some non genuine holders, but I've not yet had the opportunity to compare them. The non genuine are softer in a file test, and the finish is a bit rougher, especially the threads, but then they are cheaper, so time will tell.
 

DiscoDan

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#16
I ordered the BXA last night from CDCO plus the indexable turning tool set. Looking forward to trying it on my first turns with this lathe. Thanks to jbolt for his very helpful research and everyone who responded here for helping me make the decision.
 

wa5cab

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#17
It is of course now too late to back out as you've bought a BXA, but in my opinion you would have been better off buying a better quality AXA rather than the BXA that you bought. You are going to find in the future that virtually all tooling is going to be more expensive for little or no performance improvement.

On the subject of wedge versus piston, piston type performance varies directly with the size of the piston and with the piston shape where it contacts the holder. The Chinese-built units that I have seen photos of all use a smaller circular contact shape. The first foreign QCTP competitor to Aloris was, I think, Yuasa in Japan. I bought their full AXA set when I bought my 3996 38 years ago (and as I recall, paid more numerically than you just paid for the CDCO). And both are still working fine. The piston contact shape is rectangular and significantly larger than the circular Chinese ones. However, today the price difference between Chinese made piston and wedge sets is negligible, and still cheaper than the few used Yuasa's that I have seen on eBay. So the wedge type is the better choice.

On another subject that is independent of all of the above, you should as soon as you can afford them buy several more #1 (201) and/or #2 (202) holders. All of the sets that I have ever seen only come with one of each. With only one, the only advantage that a QCTP has over the 4-way Turret is that the vertical adjustment is more convenient. The first job that you run that requires two or more cutters that have to be mounted in the #1 holder, you are going to be back to having to get out the Allen wrenches and then adjusting the height every time that you need to change cutters. I currently have about a dozen #101's (201's for you), most with a cutter already mounted and adjusted.
 

jdedmon91

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#18
I ordered the BXA last night from CDCO plus the indexable turning tool set. Looking forward to trying it on my first turns with this lathe. Thanks to jbolt for his very helpful research and everyone who responded here for helping me make the decision.
First of all did you get the wedge type? It just works better than the piston ones. Second the tool holder set you purchased is the T style or the CCMT style? I prefer the C style of inserts because with one holder you can face and turn without changing holders. Also the inserts fit the corresponding boring bars that saves you inventory of inserts to have on hand


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

DiscoDan

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#19
wa5cab, at first I did order the AXA but I decided to change that for a couple reasons. First, I wanted to be able to adjust the height of the holder as little as possible to get the cutter centered with the chuck. The BXA will hold stronger 1/2" shank cutters so I will only have to adjust height about 1/8" up. Second, the person I took lathe and mill classes from stressed setting up for the least amount of deflection. I thought the BXA did both of these things slightly better than the AXA for a very small cost difference.

jdedmon91, I got the wedge type. For the cutters, they use the triangular T style inserts. In my lathe class the cutter used T style I think and we faced and turned with the same setup.
 
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Winegrower

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#20
In my experience there is no difference between piston and wedge toolposts, at the level of precision anybody reading this should be worried about.
 

macardoso

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#21
I run a Enco 12x36 with an AXA sized wedge toolpost. Toolholders up to 5/8" are available. I can stall my 1.5 HP motor long before I have problems with the rigidity of the toolpost. I've been happy with it. Nothing wrong with the BXA either, but less adjustment room. You will do great with either.
 

jdedmon91

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#22
In my experience there is no difference between piston and wedge toolposts, at the level of precision anybody reading this should be worried about.
I prefer the wedge type simply it seems easier to put the tool block on the post


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Dabbler

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#23
i|'d have gone with wedge but the only one available for impulse purchase was a piston. It is AXA on a 12X36 and I've had great repeatability and better than expected rigidity.

Note: I use Rocker (Armstrong), 4-way AND QCTP all on the same lathe, depending on what I'm doing. |for the bet rigidity, I use 4-way, every time. For versatility, I use the QCTP, and for hard-to-reach things I use the rocker with 1/4" HSS tool bits.
 

DiscoDan

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#24
It came today! Very quick shipping. 15332503840471035741316.jpg
 

DiscoDan

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#25
Crapola....after messing with it for a bit and considering the t nut I would need I realized that the main bolt/stud (not sure if it has an official name) is 5/8" but the slot in the cross slide is also 5/8". The only way this will work is if I open up the slot. I looked on the Shars site since they have detailed measurements of the tool holders and even they don't say what the main bolt/stud size is. What is everyone doing to solve the issue? Widening the slot?
 
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Lordbeezer

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#26
I was taught from a early age to modify the cheaper part.i know that doesn't help you any but wanted to throw it out there.
 

DiscoDan

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#27
Do I really need to use a t nut? Could I just make a flat piece to fit in the horizontal slot and thread it to fit the post? The horizontal slot is 5/16".
 

mickri

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#28
I have a craftsman 12x36 also and am making a norman style qctp. To get started I used a 5/8 carriage bolt. I had to slightly file the edges to fit the slot and also had to file the top of the bolt and file the edge in two places so the bolt will fit in the slot. I will make a proper T nut and 5/8 stud in the future. I'll post a picture of the bolt when I get a chance to take one. It will at least get you started and only takes a couple of minutes.
 

DiscoDan

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#29
Mickri, is your slot opening 5/8" like mine? If so, will you widen the slot to fit the t nut? I think you idea of using a 5/8 carriage bolt is pretty smart. I had a 1/2" that I put in and it almost fit.
 
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DAT510

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#30
Looks like the Shars AXA uses a 14mm stud vs a 16mm of the BXA.

Shars QCTP.jpeg
 
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