Randa (Portass S) restoration.

[Justblair]

So here we go, I have just purchased for a grand total of £190 A Randa lathe. It seemed a good price, though obviously I wasn't expecting it to be in tip top condition. I have never restored a lathe before, So I will be very open to suggestions as to how best proceed.

So here she is, as you can see, the lathe has been fitted to a pretty solid metal cradle: A .75KW (1HP?) 3 phase motor was included with a pretty convoluted belt drive.



The lathe itself is stamped as a Randa, though as far as i can work out, it is a rebranded Portass S.



According to the seller, he inherited it from an Uncle and has not done much with it over the last few years.

I am guesstimating the lathe is post war and that the cradle is a similar age. The cradle is branded Crosby, Preston



I am guessing the age of the cradle based on what looks like a bakelite switch and also this Singer sowing motors badge found on the rear:


The Singer motor has gone, replaced with a more modern Leroy Somer 3 phase motor:


The motor is being driven by a Eurotherm 1 phase to 3 phase programable VFD. Speed can be adjusted on the front panel of the VFD and a quick read through of the manual tells me it has i/o connections for various controls which might come in handy later.
I will place a follow up post with some information on the included accessories.

Condition wise, it's all a bit tired looking. There seems to be some play in the feeds, not terrible in the crosslide, the handle not matching the rest of the machine (a repair perhaps?) The lead screw on the other hand has a lot of play. Probably down to a badly worn nut



The Headstock seems pretty solid, there was some lateral play there, but I managed to adjust that out, not sure how best to measure the runout though. Will work on this. What I do need to do is take it apart for a right good clean. The previous owner appears to have filled the oil reservoirs with grease which I know is not right, hopefully it has not been run very long like this, but clearly it will need cleaned.

There has been a repair on the headstock at some point. I am assuming the case broke at some point close to the chuck. It has been repaired



So my first question. I plan to remove the lathe from it's cradle for a complete disassembly, clean and probably paint. I want to use the correct oil for reassembly, what lubricants should I be using for the headstock bushings and latheways etc?

 

[Justblair]

I said I would talk about the accessories that came with the lathe.
The lathe came with two chucks fitted to it was a self centering 3 jaw chuck made by Union Mfg Co. The model number is 36304 and it is also marked with a 63. Condition looks to be pretty good, but I am sure it needs a clean up and possibly other servicing. The Jaws look like they might be uneven



Also included is a smaller Burnered 4 jaw chuck that looks like a bit of a clean up will be beneficial.

I have a center support that looks original



And a bundle of rusty gears:



Apart from that there is a couple of MT1 centers and chuck keys that fit both chucks.
Really at a bit of a loss as to where best to start, a bit of procrastination is probably in my near future!

 

[twhite]

This will be a great project. May I suggest start on the simple things first. Tailstock remove full tear down and inspection. Clean paint ( If you are going that route) then re assemble. Best move to the saddle and cross slide. Same. Then maybe the drive system. Then lastly the headstock and bed. Take loads of pictures of every step you take. This will be very helpful down the road.
I will be following your progress.


Cutting oil is my blood.

 

[f350ca]

Looking forward to seeing your progress. Going to be a nice little later.
Interesting note, my Hardinge HLV-H has a 3 phase two speed Singer motor. Only something like 1 Hp but looks massive, supposably precision balanced.

Greg

 

[cross thread]

Portass S good eye .
Your first question , what oil to use for the headstock ? First , I would look and see if the bushings are babbit or are bronze . My guess is 30 W for Oillite bronze . 30W would probably be OK for babbit also . You say that you have adjusted out the lateral play for the chuck that's a good thing . To check for run out , chuck up a piece bar stock , put a indicator tip on on the chuck now gently move the bar stock up and down . That will show you the play in the spindle in relation to the bushings . But that is not that important at this point .
My machines are all vintage , my lathe (Atlas/Craftsman 6") I have dated to 1938 , my drill press (Atlas) 1950 . I also have two bench mills that are from the 50's . That being said here is how I would proceed with your lathe in general , and this is just my opinion .
First , I wouldn't use the motor that came with the lathe . That motor with the VFD has value , I would sell it . Then for a motor I would get something vintage 110V single phase , next I would use the flat belt pulleys that you got and make an over head line shaft set up .
That Aluminum chip tray and switches are cool but just don't fit your machine plus they cover up too much of the machine . If those switches are vintage Singer sewing machine stuff , there are collectors for that . I would get some vintage cast iron legs and make something really cool , wood top and varnish . Then make your machine look like this .

 

[Justblair]

Wow, cross thread, that lot is going to take me a bit of time to process, but massive thanks for your input. I had noticed that the VFD was on ebay priced at £150 from more than one vendor. I had pretty much put that in my mental bank as the escape plan should the lathe itself be gubbed!
Love your Portass, looks incredible. Funnily enough I have a tin of black enamel paint sitting that I had intended using.

The chip tray is not alu. It's prob mild steel, the whole cradle is I think, it's a two man lift. It has just been painted with silver hammerite (enamel) paint.

My plan is that this machine is going to make chips, though I have thought about making a stand for it. It's sitting on my workbench in the motorbike shed right now. I would like that surface back though for motorcycle related activities. I might just hold on to the VFD for a bit for the speed control but I may very well take your advice in the end.

When you say 30W, do you mean straight forward engine oil or hydraulic oil? I see H32 mentioned a lot for bushings, but I really don't know the difference.

 

[markba633csi]

Interesting old beast- myself I would keep the 3-phase motor and vfd for now if it's working. I'm wondering if Crosby Preston is a previous owner's name perhaps? That portion looks like it was cobbled together from leftover bits + the base of a sewing machine tray
The bed looks to be pretty short- not sure if you can fit a tailstock chuck without using up most of the bed length- you might have to get a set of
shorter twist drills than the standard jobber length ones
Enjoy!
-Mark
ps I think the tailstock is on backwards in that photo- I found these on the website lathes.co.uk

 

[Justblair]

I'm wondering if Crosby Preston is a previous owner's name perhaps? That portion looks like it was cobbled together from leftover bits + the base of a sewing machine tray

Certainly a possibility, though it would be a fairly unusual name in the UK and an invitation to bullying in Scotland! Both certainly can be used as either first names, surnames and in the UK are also names of towns. Preston in particular is a town in Lancashire associated with the industrial revolution and the textile trade. There is a village called Crosby not that far away from Preston, but it is a suburb of Liverpool.

If I were to guess, Crosby will be the surname of the maker and Preston the town of origin. Though as you say, with things being cobbled together and also altered over the years, it may be that "Crosby of Preston" made a part that was later butchered for use in this.

My invented narrative is that Crosby was a small independent machine shop that built the tray to make a second hand and broken lathe into a portable-ish device. Perhaps for their own use or perhaps for a customer. I guess they used a sewing machine motor and that the pulley contraption was probably mounted higher than it is now. I don't think it was a sewing machine tray before

The bed looks to be pretty short- not sure if you can fit a tailstock chuck without using up most of the bed length- you might have to get a set of
shorter twist drills than the standard jobber length ones

I have bought a cheapish tailstock chuck, and yes it's pretty tight for space.

I think the tailstock is on backwards in that photo

Yes, not just backwards, but incorrectly assembled. I have fixed that now.

 

[cross thread]

Yeah I'm sorry , I get carried away . Yes 30W engine oil , I would use it on the ways too . Back in the day we could get single weight engine oil but now it's almost all multi grade so I'm using 10W-40 in the spindle and on the ways . My lathe has Oilite bushing bearings for the head stock , I hope the Portass has them also . One thing I noticed about your machine , It seems to be missing the compound slide portion of the cross slide . Or maybe it never had one ? What is the swing on the Portass ? Forgive me if you already know , swing is the distance from the center of the chuck to the bottom of the ways (doubled). Also what is the distance from the spindle (no chuck) to the tail stock ram fully retracted ? If you want to confuse me with MM's that's OK .
PS What kind of motor bikes ?
Mark .

 

[cross thread]

I can't believe this guy . He's selling woman's clothing and "oh yes I have gear threading charts form Portass" .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/354655894172?hash=item5293237a9c:g:9wgAAOSwjUZiob8C&amdata=enc:AQAHAAAAwJb6jcPiY1lLXloNbT+p1jRNTM1fW7MXgYqUdbiILY45REbUm5RB5XG8R7gstzif3lM2AN94JDZcekSRuByJ+bqJx1a3CCyNhADsnTCVw5o8m6SCPCAVNb8risAzQKqo0xX8S0wel6xp9cnMq1htiUTYbzw4swnrWmg9+9bl+3kkcyBT8+B0/JgkwXN8/wPJaHOm6lLzFRpXMA3iENHsYL65bQWNtXcg7TE74au6MRAa40wi2ootOMeRiIv1S1ocVQ==|tkp:Bk9SR5LD2JrgYQ