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I will not purchase another internal combustion vehicle.
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So who thinks they will be driving electric in 10 years?
- Thread starter graham-xrf
- Start date
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- Feb 9, 2017
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I've wanted a electric car since I saw an all electric VW bug at a fair in '79.
Jay Leno also drives a Tesla and before that his daily driver was a version 1 Chevy Volt. Check out Jays vid the little ol Lady from Pasadena where he drag races her in a Tesla S and Jay is in his 800hp Cobra 429. The Tesla blows the doors off Cobra by a length or two.
Because Jay's driver was a Volt( I was blown away by that), when the wife's Benz started to scare me with the prospect of looming repairs and I couldn't figure out what to buy, we went down to check out a Benz B-Class. The local dealer(sells GM & Benz) having never hear of a B-Class. Seems Benz bought a big share of Tesla and the B-Class is all Tesla running gear. We had to walk by 4 brand new Volts, version 2. The salespeople were worthless, I knew more than they did which wasn't much. The Volt isn't you usual hybrid, it's a true plug in hybrid. The first 50-60mi is electric until the battery gets down to a certain point then the engine kicks in seamlessly and it's your usual hybrid. We also bough a solar array. My wife has a 30mi daily commute so the car goes to work and back on a charge. it has a 8gal tank and last tank we went 3,200mi before filling up. Over the lifetime of the car(we now have 53,000mi) it has averaged 156mi per gal. Because over 80% of the time it's on just electric it only on its second oil change. Because of the regen braking the pads and rotors still look new. As a confirmed Luddite it does concern me driving such a tech heavy car but so far it's been glitch free and most of all maintence free and love driving by gas stations. Never was one for loud so I love the quiet on electric. And it gets right with the program when you stomp on it. The only reason electric's are expensive is because they don't yet have the economy of scale.
Jay Leno also drives a Tesla and before that his daily driver was a version 1 Chevy Volt. Check out Jays vid the little ol Lady from Pasadena where he drag races her in a Tesla S and Jay is in his 800hp Cobra 429. The Tesla blows the doors off Cobra by a length or two.
Because Jay's driver was a Volt( I was blown away by that), when the wife's Benz started to scare me with the prospect of looming repairs and I couldn't figure out what to buy, we went down to check out a Benz B-Class. The local dealer(sells GM & Benz) having never hear of a B-Class. Seems Benz bought a big share of Tesla and the B-Class is all Tesla running gear. We had to walk by 4 brand new Volts, version 2. The salespeople were worthless, I knew more than they did which wasn't much. The Volt isn't you usual hybrid, it's a true plug in hybrid. The first 50-60mi is electric until the battery gets down to a certain point then the engine kicks in seamlessly and it's your usual hybrid. We also bough a solar array. My wife has a 30mi daily commute so the car goes to work and back on a charge. it has a 8gal tank and last tank we went 3,200mi before filling up. Over the lifetime of the car(we now have 53,000mi) it has averaged 156mi per gal. Because over 80% of the time it's on just electric it only on its second oil change. Because of the regen braking the pads and rotors still look new. As a confirmed Luddite it does concern me driving such a tech heavy car but so far it's been glitch free and most of all maintence free and love driving by gas stations. Never was one for loud so I love the quiet on electric. And it gets right with the program when you stomp on it. The only reason electric's are expensive is because they don't yet have the economy of scale.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2018
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- 1,153
This is the crux of the biscuit. I am in the "Fleet" business. The EV game has so many variables that it is nearly impossible to gather consensus on how to proceed. I have spent a considerable time in research. What I have gleaned is this- Lithium-Ion has too many detriments to be viable for the future. The mining of raw materials is NOT friendly, earth or humanity based. Without functionable safeguards, these batteries can burn down an AIRLINERNo reasonable alternative currently exists, that any NORMAL human can afford. Yet Elon and his competitors continue to ramp expectations, and capital to expand.
I will continue to source parts for my ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) rigs, and will continue to educate the kids on proper maintenance.
While many hybrid cars use Lithium ion batteries my Toyota hybrid uses Nickle metal hydride batteries instead of Lion batteries. A lot of research is going into boosting the power density of NiMH batteries to make them more capable for EV's. I use NiMH batteries for my Dewalt 18v tools... there is no way you would get me to switch to the Dewalt 20v Lion tools! My first set of cheap after market Dewalt 18v compatible NiMH batteries are about 4 years old now... I have NEVER run out of juice! They certainly do not seem to be loosing any capacity!
I agree that EV technology is still young and has a good ways to go before it is going to take over as our primary vehicle propulsion method... but it is gaining ground every day.
I looked at EV's when I purchased my hybrid... but like you said they are not mature enough to get my money... yet! I believe some day they will be and look forwards to that day rather than fear that day.
Economy of scale will help a lot, so will advances in battery technology.
Did you buy the Benz B-Class? My sister (down in CA of course) leased one for a couple years. My niece was only stranded twice due to not allocating enough time for a full charge. They had to call a tow truck and pay the towing bill. I like that Tesla promises to take care of towing in the event of a discharged battery.
P.S. I can't stand car salesmen. Completely worthless in my experience.
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- Feb 2, 2013
- Messages
- 3,627
NEVER ! i don't care if they were giving them out.
unless we get real good at hazardous waste recycling we are going to have millions(or billions) of batteries to dispose of.
our current plan of burying things and pushing the undesirables into the oceans, has its limits.
current (over)regulation, especially here in lala land CA, we mandate clean burning vehicles and penalize drivers who would dare bring a vehicle from out of state into this grand utopia (choking on sarcasm here).
why would we need to raise the price of electricity? because that's what's coming next if this scam takes hold-
we WILL get unintended consequences by our desire to flex our arrogance and ignorance
they are predicting 70 billion in lithium battery sales by 2020, but less than 5% of lithium batteries are recycled
WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM COMING SOON
unless we get real good at hazardous waste recycling we are going to have millions(or billions) of batteries to dispose of.
our current plan of burying things and pushing the undesirables into the oceans, has its limits.
current (over)regulation, especially here in lala land CA, we mandate clean burning vehicles and penalize drivers who would dare bring a vehicle from out of state into this grand utopia (choking on sarcasm here).
why would we need to raise the price of electricity? because that's what's coming next if this scam takes hold-
we WILL get unintended consequences by our desire to flex our arrogance and ignorance
they are predicting 70 billion in lithium battery sales by 2020, but less than 5% of lithium batteries are recycled
WE HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM COMING SOON
I for one will stick with internal combustion, partly because I've spent 46 years drilling for the black gold. And it fed my family well enough.
But I do think electric cars are the best alternative to fossil fuel powered ones. But I also think they have a long way to go before they can be a better choice altogether, ie batteries, charging, and power generation. Like others above have already stated.
If the change over came as quick as some would like, there would be an awful lot of people out of work. And the world economy would be somewhat different.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Chuck
But I do think electric cars are the best alternative to fossil fuel powered ones. But I also think they have a long way to go before they can be a better choice altogether, ie batteries, charging, and power generation. Like others above have already stated.
If the change over came as quick as some would like, there would be an awful lot of people out of work. And the world economy would be somewhat different.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Chuck
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2018
- Messages
- 1,153
I use Lion batteries in several applications... flash lights, camera flashes, cell phones (I won't buy a cell phone without a user changeable battery), etc.
In case some members do not know Home Depot, Lowes and Batteries Plus all have battery recycling drop boxes (locally they are right in the first door of the store entrance). They have another box for compact florescent bulbs. I had to drive an hour away to find a place to take my Florescent shop light tubes. I love the replacement LED tubes!... brighter and also silent!
P.S. I you want to know the best brand and model of 18650 Lion battery to use for your flashlight... ask a vap-er.
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- Joined
- Dec 21, 2013
- Messages
- 798
There is always the fact that internal combustion engines can be run on water, the guy here in Oregon
who figured out how to do it and was nearly at marketing stage with his injector converter to hydrogen
was mysteriously killed before he could market it !!!
If the right people don't profit it won't happen !! Unfortunately, that's the way it is.................
who figured out how to do it and was nearly at marketing stage with his injector converter to hydrogen
was mysteriously killed before he could market it !!!
If the right people don't profit it won't happen !! Unfortunately, that's the way it is.................
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2019
- Messages
- 708
The larger issue here is who won't be driving an electric vehicle and the answer to that is "most of us". It is simple supply of the current battery raw materials which will limit the number of electric cars on the road. For instance each Tesla has about 50 pounds of lithium in the battery. World production of lithium per year is currently 160,000 tons which would limit the number of vehicles produced with lithium batteries to 640,000 per year. That is less than 10% of vehicles sold new in the USA each year.
Further, current reserves of lithium in the ground are around 15 million tons. Which would limit the number of vehicles using batteries with lithium to 600 million. That would cover the US and a good chunk of the rest of the world but would leave 400 million current vehicle owners without a vehicle.
Of course as demand goes up mining companies will find more lithium deposits to be mined but it is highly likely that those deposits will be far harder to extract than the current proven reserves. Prices will increase accordingly. And that says nothing of the environmental damage done over the years by the production and use of lithium. In my lifetime we have gone from using lead in everything from paint to fuel to limiting the uses and shutting down production within the US. I suspect shortly after lithium is mandated to be used to power all cars it will be attacked much in the same way as fossil fuels have been as bringing about the "end of the world" and the production and use will be severely curtailed and probably taxed radically to deter its' use.
Then there is the issue of generating the electricity to charge all those cars. It will take construction of power plants which 99% of will use fossil fuels and 1% will be renewable. There won't be any nuclear because 3 mile island.
I will stop before I get political and end by saying that no matter what, someone will always want humans to have zero footprint on the planet, yet they have a footprint on the planet.
Further, current reserves of lithium in the ground are around 15 million tons. Which would limit the number of vehicles using batteries with lithium to 600 million. That would cover the US and a good chunk of the rest of the world but would leave 400 million current vehicle owners without a vehicle.
Of course as demand goes up mining companies will find more lithium deposits to be mined but it is highly likely that those deposits will be far harder to extract than the current proven reserves. Prices will increase accordingly. And that says nothing of the environmental damage done over the years by the production and use of lithium. In my lifetime we have gone from using lead in everything from paint to fuel to limiting the uses and shutting down production within the US. I suspect shortly after lithium is mandated to be used to power all cars it will be attacked much in the same way as fossil fuels have been as bringing about the "end of the world" and the production and use will be severely curtailed and probably taxed radically to deter its' use.
Then there is the issue of generating the electricity to charge all those cars. It will take construction of power plants which 99% of will use fossil fuels and 1% will be renewable. There won't be any nuclear because 3 mile island.
I will stop before I get political and end by saying that no matter what, someone will always want humans to have zero footprint on the planet, yet they have a footprint on the planet.